G24 parking charge for overstaying AND hire car company admin charge

ImOffToTheTip

Hi all, I've read through the Newbies guide but am a confused by the wording.

Situation

I parked at a retail park for Christmas shopping. I was in a hire car.

G24 have sent the hire car company a PCN for the start of December for overstaying by 27 minutes. 

The car hire company have emailed me to let me know about the notice - they have passed the hire agreement on to G24, and have said: "no payments have been made in respect of the penalty charge notice, we requested the penalty issuer re- issue their notice to you at your home address for payment or appeal." So I think I'm within the appeal time as I haven't technically had the official notice yet.

I will start now to contact the shops I used and send any receipts I have. (I've called ALDI as a starting point but the woman I spoke to was unsympathetic.) I'll try doing this my email/post to head offices etc.

Main question - which template do I use?

When the PCN arrives in the post, I'm not sure of the next steps. This bit copied from the Newbies guide fits my situation, as G24 are members of the IPC/corporate members of the BPA. But I don't really understand the meaning of the first paragraph. Guide says:

Postal PCN from a BPA or IPC member ? (i.e. with no mention of any windscreen ticket):

A postal PCN or NTK might be headed up 'Reminder' or 'Charge Notice' or it may even be a letter from a debt collector - it is your Notice to Keeper, in effect, if it's the first letter to arrive. No need to wait, appeal online as registered keeper (or as ''hirer/lessee'' if that's the case, see * below re lease/hire cars).

....

* COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK
With a company/leased or hire car, if you get a windscreen ticket and cannot get it cancelled by the landowner (PLAN A above), appeal within 2 weeks, well before day 21 to hook the PPC in your direction to stop them getting the keeper's details from the DVLA.

• It's not the first letter to arrive as they've already sent the first letter to the hire car company.
• The * guidance for 'company lease cars etc' that talks about windscreen tickets, which I didn't get.
  
• G24 know that I'm the driver as they have a copy of the car hire agreement, which stipulates only I can drive the car. (I think... I don't have a copy to hand at the moment, I've requested one, but I'm pretty sure it specifies that I'm the only one who can drive it.)

So basically, which template should I use to appeal? Do I assume they know I was driving? Any advice is gratefully received.

Two further questions if you can help:

1) The car park said the limit for free parking is 2 hours in the 'small car park' and 3 hours in the 'big car park'. The photos on the PCN show me entering/exiting the car park but not necessarily where I parked. Is it worth putting this in my appeal?

2) The hire car company are charging me an admin charge of £60. I agreed to this in the T&Cs with the company, so I imagine I am probably stuck with this, but just in case, does anyone have experience of getting these dropped if the parking charge is dismissed?

Many thanks everyone!

On a personal note, and please excuse the rant because I am feeling very fed up and emotional and angry at the moment: I was in the hire car because some tit drove into my perfectly positioned and legally parked car and wrote it off, while I was on holiday. Insurance company has found me not at fault, but I am shedding money and time at the moment: £1.5k extra for buying the same secondhand car at 2023 prices, higher insurance premium because I'm technically down as 'at fault' until the insurance matters are settled, lots of back and forth with companies, etc. Unfortunately getting this notice today, and the prospect of paying £70 to these vultures (as well as the hire car admin charge, £60), has tipped me over the edge. Thanks for listening to my TEDTalk.

Debszzzz2

Don't overthink this. You do nothing until you receive a Notice to Hirer (NtH) addressed to you. The hire company will only have transferred liability to you as the hirer. They cannot possibly know who was driving, irrespective of whether the hire agreement specifies your name. No assumptions or inference can be made.

Check the hire agreement for what is says about speculative invoices from unregulated private parking companies. If it only mentions "fines" and "penalties" issued by an "authority" or the "police", then they have no right to charge you an admin fee for an "invoice" from a "private company". You can tell your credit card company to put a hold on the payment as it is in dispute.

When it is time to appeal, you do so as the "hirer", nothing else. We have yet to see any PPC issue an NtH that complies with PoFA.

ImOffToTheTip

@Debszzzz2 Thanks a lot for the reply.

"We have yet to see any PPC issue an NtH that complies with PoFA" - I've Googled PoFA but not sure what you mean here, sorry.

Should I still reach out to the retailers to ask for it to be cancelled? I know it's coming because of the email I've received, so my thought was to get ahead of it all. (I spent money in three stores -- going to track down the receipts.)

(Also, had a thought occur - does the 28 day right to appeal start when the PCN comes through my door, or when it's issued?)

Debszzzz2

Plan A first. If it is a large retail park, the land may be owned/managed by someone other than the businesses at the location. Is there a plinth or sigh showing all the retailers at the location? If so, there is often somewhere on that plinth a notice of who the managing agents are.

PoFA = Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. You can read it here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

Section 13 applies to lease/hire cars.

The NtH will tell you how long you have to appeal by. I think G24 are IPC members so I think they only give 21 days to appeal. It will usually be from the date of the issue of the NtH.

Coupon-mad

The 21 days (not 28) starts when you get your NTH.  Read this post from a solicitor:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80633158/#Comment_80633158

ImOffToTheTip

Had an update and would appreciate some advice.

G24 have not sent me a notice yet. The only people who have replied to them are the rental car company, who sent G24 the car hire agreement and told them to speak to me.

However, I've now had a letter come through from G24 saying:

"Thank you for your recent correspondence.

In order for liability to be changed, you must provide a signed car hire agreement.

We have taken into account your appeal and requested additional information from you to investigate further. Your appeal will only be re-considered if you provide this information within 14 days, otherwise no further investigation will be undertaken.

You now have one of the following options available to you. 

1) Pay BS, blah blah blah.

2) If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you. 

[Short blurb about the IAS, blah blah blah.]"

Because I have not corresponded with them and they haven't sent me a notice, surely this isn't legal as they haven't given me the correct response/appeal time? They've only contacted the car hire company so far. They say they want a signed car hire agreement, but they haven't provided me with an email to send one to. But I don't even think I should do that should I? (It was also sent on 8th March and I've been on holiday until this evening so no idea when the letter arrived and I'm past the 14 days tomorrow.)

Would welcome thoughts on this wording: my idea is to contact them a copy of the letter and:

"I have not been issued a parking notice referred to in the attached letter (parking charge notice xxx). Therefore no action is needed on my part at this time."

Does anyone have their email address, or should I send a response by post to the address they've given in the letter above?

Thanks!

ImOffToTheTip

To update the above, I might add to my response:

"I have not been in correspondence with G24. I have not been issued a parking notice referred to in the attached letter (parking charge notice xxx), nor have I received a Notice to Hirer. Therefore, no action is needed on my part at this time."

How does that sound?

Coupon-mad

No you are playing with fire. The recipient of that letter needs to provide a hire agreement OR name the driver.

ImOffToTheTip

@Coupon-mad Thanks for replying.

I don't understand what you mean by playing with fire, sorry. I haven't received a Notice to Hirer yet, which is the advice I received above: "You do nothing until you receive a Notice to Hirer (NtH) addressed to you." I also haven't corresponded with G24, so have  no idea what they mean by this or what exactly they've been told.

I don't feel comfortable doing nothing, having received that letter.

ImOffToTheTip

Also, they have had a car hire agreement from the car hire company.

KeithP

ImOffToTheTip said:

Also, they have had a car hire agreement from the car hire company.

Who is 'they' in this sentence?