Royal Mail refusing compensation

sghughes42

soolin said:

I think there is a real chance of getting bogged down in correct use of words - Royal mail require proof that item was accepted into the system, their own bulk form calls this a certificate of posting - I use this at the mail centre when I drop parcels off. It shows address of recipient and is used in case I ever need to make a claim (my last was last week after about a year of no losses). Royal-Mail-Bulk-Certificate-Posting-Standard-editable-Sept-2016_0.pdf (royalmail.com)

Very confusing! However this form wouldn't have been of use to me as the item was sent International Signed.

My contention is if the item wasn't accepted in to their system, how was it scanned within their system? As for the address, when the label was purchased this would be tied in with the tracking number generated so again this can be linked.

It just feels to me as if they are using a missing step to deny the whole claim when evidence I have can't have been generated if that step hadn't happened.

born_again

Surely the value of the item will be declared on custom form given it's going overseas?

MobileSaver

soolin said:

MobileSaver said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

MobileSaver said:

RefluentBeans said:

Additionally, the OP has said they are asking for proof of postage, not proof of purchase. Proof of postage is just that - proof the parcel was posted. ... That doesn’t transfer  the contract to the poster, merely confirms that the package has been posted.

I think you have this the wrong way round. It's an easy mistake to make but you are confusing "proof of postage" with "proof of posting". Postage is a noun meaning the amount it costs to send something, posting of course is a verb describing the actual sending of something. 

So proof of postage means the receipt in colloquial terms - it appears it is this which the OP doesn't have and so not surprisingly Royal Mail are saying they have no liability towards the OP.

I think some people say proof of postage and others say proof of posting but both mean the same thing, i.e the receipt you get from Royal Mail or the Post Office which has part of the address on with some other bits of info to show you handed the parcel over.

"Some" people may well use both terms to mean the same thing but they'd be wrong to do so!

Royal Mail specifically asked for proof of postage - this is the receipt or proof of purchase showing how much was paid. Very often this receipt will also show proof of posting but not always if for example you actually purchased a book of stamps.

Conversely a proof of posting shows when you posted something but does not necessarily show that you paid the postage and therefore are entitled to any refund. E.g. you can get a proof of posting when you use a retailer's pre-paid return label but will often have no idea how much the postage costs.

I think there is a real chance of getting bogged down in correct use of words -

The correct use of words is important; everyone was wasting their time with the original replies in this thread as the OP has now admitted that Royal Mail actually asked for proof of posting and not proof of postage as they originally said.

Hoenir

born_again said:

Surely the value of the item will be declared on custom form given it's going overseas?

Has the item been caught in Customs in Australia? Held packages can take an eternity to get resolved. (And subsequently returned to sender).  

sghughes42

Hoenir said:

born_again said:

Surely the value of the item will be declared on custom form given it's going overseas?

Has the item been caught in Customs in Australia? Held packages can take an eternity to get resolved. (And subsequently returned to sender).  

I'd hope not - would that show on the tracking? It's got a CN22 on, tax was paid and collected by eBay so there should be no reason for it to get held. It's been nearly 3 months now so I'd hope there would have been some resolution by now. The replacement got through in under a week.

sghughes42

MobileSaver said:

The correct use of words is important; everyone was wasting their time with the original replies in this thread as the OP has now admitted that Royal Mail actually asked for proof of posting and not proof of postage as they originally said.

To be fair, in our discussions various Royal Mail reps have used both terms interchangeably - if they can't get it right I'm not sure how I'm supposed to know which they need.

Proof of Posting is the most recent one they used - scanning back through the thread of conversation with them both terms have been used pretty much equally.

So I'm not actually clear now which they do need!

sghughes42

born_again said:

Surely the value of the item will be declared on custom form given it's going overseas?

I make the item, therefore they need a breakdown of the cost of the components. They will only pay what it cost me to obtain the parts needed to make it, nothing further.

born_again

sghughes42 said:

born_again said:

Surely the value of the item will be declared on custom form given it's going overseas?

I make the item, therefore they need a breakdown of the cost of the components. They will only pay what it cost me to obtain the parts needed to make it, nothing further.

So this is a business transaction & not a consumer one then.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

soolin said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

To add to the complication, you can buy online from Royal Mail, drop off at the Royal Mail Delivery Office (which isn't the Post Office), they will scan the parcel so the tracking will have an acceptance scan but you won't get an email or paper receipt in return. For tracked mail it would be extremely poor of Royal Mail to decline compensation if you purchase then drop off the parcel in this manner. 

I take my items to the mail centre a lot and use a bulk certificate of posting as proof of posting. They take my parcels, scan them and then stamp my POP. I've used that bulk form to claim a loss .

This is what I use when I drop packages of at the mail centre Royal-Mail-Bulk-Certificate-Posting-Standard-editable-Sept-2016_0.pdf (royalmail.com)

I don't use one at the  Post office as they give me a till receipt that states it is needed in case of issues and is my receipt of posting  for all my items once they scan them. That shows the address of the buyer and the service sued.

I used to use that for the Airmail as the mail was just being bagged and dropped at the DO,  crazy really as they obviously wasn't going to open the bags and match the mail the bulk COP yet here OP is with tracking showing receipt and they don't want to pay out. 

I think for the everyday person they are going to assume dropped at the DO means some sort of cover, I understand they can't give a paper receipt but you'd think their software would allow an email same as when they pick up from your house.

@sghughes42

With you being business the requirements of due care and skill for service under the Consumer Rights Act wouldn't apply sadly, I'm not sure what legislation otherwise governs services for B2B in order to put forward a legal argument. 

I doubt Royal Mail want to go to court and a letter before action might see them pay but if you have a business account with them do they get funny about it and close the account? 

There is an email contact on the CEO email site for Royal Mail, it might be worth trying that pointing out although you don't have proof of postage the parcel was obviously accepted into the network.

Was the parcel booked via OBA? 

Money_Grabber13579

Slight tangent but I wonder if policy has changed somewhere within Royal Mail and claims are now just denied much more routinely? They damaged one of my parcels recently and have refused to pay out because it wasn’t packaged adequately - despite it being packaged in exactly the same way that the manufacturer packaged it. I don’ have much prior experience of claiming from Royal Mail but any time in the past, they have paid out.