Any Success stories? Everything finally sorted after family "go rogue"

Malthusian

Sea_Shell said:

Yes, I agree we only tend to hear about the cases where things have gone bad, but what many of the posters of these threads are going through is not a saga/drama of their own making.   Some of them are left out of pocket by 10's of thousands of pounds!!  

I read Marcon's post about being the people who rubberneck at other people's inheritance sagas, not the people actually going through them. People who after digesting so much negative information of no relevance to themselves, start saying things like "why should I even bother making a Will?"

It's not far off the way people spend all their time watching true crime "documentaries" until they're convinced that the streets are running with blood and they're too scared to leave their house.

Marcon

Malthusian said:

Sea_Shell said:

Yes, I agree we only tend to hear about the cases where things have gone bad, but what many of the posters of these threads are going through is not a saga/drama of their own making.   Some of them are left out of pocket by 10's of thousands of pounds!!  

I read Marcon's post about being the people who rubberneck at other people's inheritance sagas, not the people actually going through them. People who after digesting so much negative information of no relevance to themselves, start saying things like "why should I even bother making a Will?"

It's not far off the way people spend all their time watching true crime "documentaries" until they're convinced that the streets are running with blood and they're too scared to leave their house.

Indeed - and that is a major drawback of a forum like this. Success stories are surely the huge majority of estates which are administered successfully and without any sort of rancour?

I'm not sure there are that many - if any - threads which demonstrate clear evidence of people being 'left out of pocket by 10's of thousands'. Those posting are a small self-selecting minority, posting things based on their grasp of what's going on and posting from their own standpoint (often a genuinely held belief, although not always a correct one!). They are posting because they believe they are hard done by in some way, but it doesn't make them representative of the population at large. Plenty of the posts seem to be second or third hand information - "I know someone....".

Taking everything posted here at face value is probably not the most reliable guide to what should/did actually happen. Perhaps thinking first about how those on the 'other side of the argument' might have represented their case would give a more balanced view, but of course we never hear that.

There are plenty of hysterical media headlines about families being at war/contested wills being at an all-time high, with the number of cases heard in the High Court 'nearly doubling' in a year. The basis for all this? The MoJ figures showing that the number of cases heard in 2019 rose by 47% on the 2018 figures. The number heard in 2019? Just 188 (small earthquake, nobody hurt, little damage to property). Headline-grabbing cases reported in the media are reported precisely because they are headline grabbing i.e they are rare.

Mediation is cheaper, quicker, and vastly less stressful for all parties, with a very high level of success. Figures vary depending on their source, but 'upwards of 70%' seems to be about the lowest - some expert mediators in this particular field can reach agreements satisfactory to all parties in more than 90% of cases. Unlike a court hearing, which tends to be one side wins/the other loses, compromises can and are reached which work for everyone.

A valid and up to date will goes a long way to avoiding disputes and confusion. Surely some of the saddest posts here are those which start by saying someone didn't have a will 'because they didn't expect to die'. How often that creates shock and chaos, especially if there are unmarried partners, and/or children under the age of 18, involved.

Possibly the most useful tactic of all, and it's free, is simply to put any squabbling on hold for an agreed period while people begin to come to terms with the grief and shock of bereavement. Things said/actions taken in the heat of the moment often rankle for longer, and hurt far more, than the speaker/doer could ever have envisaged or intended - and not saying/doing them in the first place is far better for the long term family dynamic than retracting or apologising for them at a later date.

None of the above guarantees a calm and correct administration of the estate, but it might enhance the chances of doing so.

Spendless

People post about inheritances on here when they have a query. When my Grandmother died last year I posted a few threads cos I had some questions, worries, concerns etc. What I didn't do is start a thread saying 'Nan died, the money she left me will replace my ancient car and I've also treated the husband and kids'. It's unlikely anyone would. Most posts throughout the whole  forum are people asking a question.

 On the contrary to 'why should I  bother making a will' the stories on here prompted me to do one. I've told that to the OP of that thread who is still awaiting an outcome to their situation  

ProbateNewbie

As someone who is currently experiencing somebody being bloody awkward re handing over jewellery, why the hell shouldn't I feel aggrieved that to get what's rightfully mine is possibly going to cost a pretty penny in legal fees? 

Anyone in a similar situation will understandably be stressed with it all. When someone has a Will, the majority of us expect that it will be adhered to. Correctly.
It should be, otherwise, what IS the point of going to the time & expense of having a Will drawn up?!

It's a horrible reality when that is not the case and not only do you have to fight for your rightful inheritance, be it a house/cash/jewellery, you will probably rack up a big egal bill doing so. When in actual fact, you shouldn't have to go to the extra hassle & expense! 

Amazing. And it's no damn use telling people to wait until everyone's grieved, some people are just hellbent on being as awkward as they can be.

I reckon this happens more than you think; it's just that not everyone comes on a forum to query it.

Sea_Shell

Marcon said:

Malthusian said:

Sea_Shell said:

Yes, I agree we only tend to hear about the cases where things have gone bad, but what many of the posters of these threads are going through is not a saga/drama of their own making.   Some of them are left out of pocket by 10's of thousands of pounds!!  

I read Marcon's post about being the people who rubberneck at other people's inheritance sagas, not the people actually going through them. People who after digesting so much negative information of no relevance to themselves, start saying things like "why should I even bother making a Will?"

It's not far off the way people spend all their time watching true crime "documentaries" until they're convinced that the streets are running with blood and they're too scared to leave their house.

I'm not sure there are that many - if any - threads which demonstrate clear evidence of people being 'left out of pocket by 10's of thousands'. Those posting are a small self-selecting minority, posting things based on their grasp of what's going on and posting from their own standpoint (often a genuinely held belief, although not always a correct one!). They are posting because they believe they are hard done by in some way, but it doesn't make them representative of the population at large. Plenty of the posts seem to be second or third hand information - "I know someone....".

Well, I could name at least two, off the top of my head, where they are.     One currently ongoing for £100k and another for £60k, which was lost.  Others are being "held to ransom" over a share of a house.  

You may dismiss these as just one side of the story, and if you don't believe their stories then that's up to you.

Yes, they may be in the minority and "self-selecting" as you call it, but it doesn't make their cases less valid or true. 

These things can and do happen even with valid wills, and the posters trying everything they can to be reasonable and do things "by the book", but some family or executors or trustees are just "wronguns", sadly, or feel they have some moral (rather than legal) entitlement.   

Keep_pedalling

We have a friend who went through 2 years of hell administering her father’s estate. She was co executor with her sister who she did not have a great relationship with before he died, but he thought making them joint executors would help bring them together and of cause it had the exact opposite effect. Her sister argued over everything including the funeral arrangements, and the thing took a year longer than it should have done and caused major stress to our friend.

All was sorted out in the end but they now have nothing to do with each other.

The problem is there is no practical solution to prevent such issues happening unless you go down the route of making all estates over a certain value go through professional executors, but that would would have a negative effect on the vast majority of estates that don’t have warring families members involved. 

Tucosalamanca

Keep_pedalling said:

he thought making them joint executors would help bring them together and of cause it had the exact opposite effect. 

This.
People can have the best intentions but sometimes their rose-tinted-view or later unintended consequences can lead to terrible outcomes.
I speak from experience....

Sea_Shell

I've just been reminded (via another thread), that it also effects estates that have been stripped of their assets BEFORE someone has died, by say, fraudulent use of an LPA.   

Malthusian

ProbateNewbie said:

As someone who is currently experiencing somebody being bloody awkward re handing over jewellery, why the hell shouldn't I feel aggrieved that to get what's rightfully mine is possibly going to cost a pretty penny in legal fees? 

I can't see anyone suggesting you shouldn't be aggrieved. I certainly understand why you are.

But spending a pretty penny in legal fees in an attempt to obtain some jewellery of no certain value, is the kind of thing that makes everyone miserable and lawyers rich. Not all wrongs have legal solutions. The outcome could easily be "I threw them away, oops." 

These boards have repeatedly illustrated that possession is 9/10ths of the law when it comes to the inheritance of personal possessions of no material value. 

Anyone in a similar situation will understandably be stressed with it all. When someone has a Will, the majority of us expect that it will be adhered to. Correctly.
It should be, otherwise, what IS the point of going to the time & expense of having a Will drawn up?!

Because otherwise the "rightful beneficiary" might not be the rightful beneficiary in the first place.

Sea_Shell

Malthusian said:

ProbateNewbie said:

As someone who is currently experiencing somebody being bloody awkward re handing over jewellery, why the hell shouldn't I feel aggrieved that to get what's rightfully mine is possibly going to cost a pretty penny in legal fees? 

I can't see anyone suggesting you shouldn't be aggrieved. I certainly understand why you are.

But spending a pretty penny in legal fees in an attempt to obtain some jewellery of no certain value, is the kind of thing that makes everyone miserable and lawyers rich. Not all wrongs have legal solutions. The outcome could easily be "I threw them away, oops." 

These boards have repeatedly illustrated that possession is 9/10ths of the law when it comes to the inheritance of personal possessions of no material value. 

Anyone in a similar situation will understandably be stressed with it all. When someone has a Will, the majority of us expect that it will be adhered to. Correctly.
It should be, otherwise, what IS the point of going to the time & expense of having a Will drawn up?!

Because otherwise the "rightful beneficiary" might not be the rightful beneficiary in the first place.

I agree that things are much trickier where personal possessions are involved, especially if these have a more sentimental value than actual.   (for example, open market value can be significantly less, rather than being insured for a replacement value)

It still hurts, obviously, and I'd likely be angry too, but it is much harder to prove who owned what, what might have been gifted before they died or that they even existed in the first place.