Any Success stories? Everything finally sorted after family "go rogue"

Sea_Shell

Prompted by the many threads we see regarding the mishandling of estates, where individuals "go rogue" and don't handle the estate assets as they should ( in some cases out and out theft), I can't recall any threads whereby the aggrieved parties finally got everything sorted out as it should've been and recovered any legal costs incurred.

Be this by having "strong words" with those involved, or by sending solicitors letters, or by eventually taking court action against them.

So, where are the success stories?    Have you had one?   Did you post about it at the time and I've missed it? 

Did they see the error of their ways and pay up?
Did they eventually agree to move out so a house could be sold?
Was it all a "misunderstanding"?


Are there any Happy Endings out there, to restore our faith in human nature?

Savvy_Sue

This is a very minor example and I don't think there was ever a chance of it going nuclear, but a friend is one of four siblings. Mum's estate is being (slowly) dealt with by a solicitor: the siblings thought that they should honour what was in the will, even though they are perfectly capable and could have handled it themselves (and even though when that will was written it was normal to name solicitors as executors). 

It was agreed by all that my friend should have Mum's engagement ring. The solicitor had the ring valued at £300 and said that would reduce my friend's share by this amount. My friend wouldn't really have had a problem with this, but the other siblings agreed that this was NOT at all necessary, and they were happy for my friend to have the ring on top of an otherwise equal share of the estate. They have written to solicitor to this effect. 

Now, here's hoping for some 'seeing sense' stories on a grander scale ... 

danco

Just a quickie that it is possible to change a will if all the beneficiaries (or, it may be all the AFFECTED beneficiaries, I'm not sure) agree. I think it's called a "deed of variation". If the solicitor does not accept their letter this might be the way to go.

Spendless

Hopefully we'll see some updates from stories posted on here but I can give an example of where someone could have 'gone rogue' but didn't and it didn't entertain their head to do so.

Nan died last year, her will left 50% to my Mum, 25% to me and 25% to my sister. Sis has been estranged from our parents for several years, isn't on speaking terms with me and had  also fallen out with Nan who used to threaten to  take sis out of her will but never did. Nan developed dementia and spent the last 8 years of her life in a care home her estate mostly swallowed up by fees. What was left of Nan's estate was small enough to not need probate. Mum could have easily not given sis her share. Sis wouldn't be able to look it up as it didn't need probate. Sis might have also thought there was nothing left after care fees had been paid plus a funeral (Mum when she got POA had actually purchased a funeral plan in advance)  or that  she'd been written out of the will. Sis had no one to ask these questions to because she's not on  speaking terms with any of us.
Sis would have had to consult a solicitor and pay to ask the question and might have discovered 'there's nothing left' or 'you're no longer in it' and for that reason would never had gone down a legal route to ask.
Mum (sole executor)  could have very easily kept Sister's share to herself, given it to me or split between me and her, but she didn't. It never entered her head to do anything that wasn't correct. 

RAS

I recall one instance in an old old thread. A mother had made the OP's husband executor of her will; but when the donor died he discovered that her daughter had been to the bank and used the death certificate to clear what was left in mum's account. The nursing home was chasing unpaid nursing home fees.

Neither the executor or daughter were beneficiaries. The daughter had previously been stripped of power of attorney by the local authority because she was using mum's account to fund herself. She signed an indemnity to clear the account when mum died, probably because she knew she wasn't a beneficiary. 

After a lot of hassle, with the daughter refusing to return the money, the executor complained to the bank. His argument was that since the bank had paid the money out incorrectly it was their responsibility to cover the loss to the estate. And it was their responsibility to retrieve the mis-attributed funds from the person who had indemnified them. 

I think it took a couple of years of escalating complaints but the bank eventually had to refund the money, the care fees were paid and the remainder distributed in line with the will. Don't think the OP knew whether the bank pursued the daughter.

Savvy_Sue

danco said:

Just a quickie that it is possible to change a will if all the beneficiaries (or, it may be all the AFFECTED beneficiaries, I'm not sure) agree. I think it's called a "deed of variation". If the solicitor does not accept their letter this might be the way to go.

It's the AFFECTED beneficiaries. Also note that if any of them are minors (under 18) they cannot agree (and nor can anyone do so on their behalf). Also if anyone is in receipt of means-tested benefits, then this will / should be seen as Deprivation of Assets, so they'll lose their benefits in line with what they should have received. 

However, there's nothing to stop people just giving part of their bequest away: my co-executor sent each of his niblings a sum of money, from his own share of Dad's estate. 

ProbateNewbie

I keep hearing stuff like this. Makes me wonder why bother making a Will if there's no penalty for it not being administered correctly. 🤨

Sea_Shell

Savvy_Sue said:

It was agreed by all that my friend should have Mum's engagement ring. The solicitor had the ring valued at £300 and said that would reduce my friend's share by this amount. My friend wouldn't really have had a problem with this, but the other siblings agreed that this was NOT at all necessary, and they were happy for my friend to have the ring on top of an otherwise equal share of the estate. They have written to solicitor to this effect. 

Now, here's hoping for some 'seeing sense' stories on a grander scale ... 

Good to hear.    Yes, the other siblings could have dug their heels in over the issue.

Sea_Shell

Spendless said:

Hopefully we'll see some updates from stories posted on here but I can give an example of where someone could have 'gone rogue' but didn't and it didn't entertain their head to do so.

Nan died last year, her will left 50% to my Mum, 25% to me and 25% to my sister. Sis has been estranged from our parents for several years, isn't on speaking terms with me and had  also fallen out with Nan who used to threaten to  take sis out of her will but never did. Nan developed dementia and spent the last 8 years of her life in a care home her estate mostly swallowed up by fees. What was left of Nan's estate was small enough to not need probate. Mum could have easily not given sis her share. Sis wouldn't be able to look it up as it didn't need probate. Sis might have also thought there was nothing left after care fees had been paid plus a funeral (Mum when she got POA had actually purchased a funeral plan in advance)  or that  she'd been written out of the will. Sis had no one to ask these questions to because she's not on  speaking terms with any of us.
Sis would have had to consult a solicitor and pay to ask the question and might have discovered 'there's nothing left' or 'you're no longer in it' and for that reason would never had gone down a legal route to ask.
Mum (sole executor)  could have very easily kept Sister's share to herself, given it to me or split between me and her, but she didn't. It never entered her head to do anything that wasn't correct. 

I'm glad it worked out and they did the right thing.   Like you say, it would be all to easy to have not done so. 

Sea_Shell

RAS said:

I recall one instance in an old old thread. A mother had made the OP's husband executor of her will; but when the donor died he discovered that her daughter had been to the bank and used the death certificate to clear what was left in mum's account. The nursing home was chasing unpaid nursing home fees.

Neither the executor or daughter were beneficiaries. The daughter had previously been stripped of power of attorney by the local authority because she was using mum's account to fund herself. She signed an indemnity to clear the account when mum died, probably because she knew she wasn't a beneficiary. 

After a lot of hassle, with the daughter refusing to return the money, the executor complained to the bank. His argument was that since the bank had paid the money out incorrectly it was their responsibility to cover the loss to the estate. And it was their responsibility to retrieve the mis-attributed funds from the person who had indemnified them. 

I think it took a couple of years of escalating complaints but the bank eventually had to refund the money, the care fees were paid and the remainder distributed in line with the will. Don't think the OP knew whether the bank pursued the daughter.

I don't recall that one.    But at least they were able to "bring out the big guns" by taking it up with the bank, who then coughed up.   

Many of the cases we see though, are when people have the initial "right" to access estate funds, but then choose to hold on to them all, or sit on (or in) an estate asset and refuse to hand it over.

Sea_Shell

On the topic of Deeds of Variation.    (which isn't the issue TBF)

Yes, these can work for those who want to do them, or they become so exasperated they end up doing one, just to move on with it all.

However, as you have to do these within 2 years of the death, many of these "rogue" problems have already been dragging on for substantially longer than that, as usually those who are supposed to be dealing with the estate are given the benefit of the doubt to start with (executor's year).    That ship then sails.

I suppose that if one knew, early doors, that they had a "rogue operator" in their midst, they could engage the big guns by doing a DOV for a portion of their inheritance to one of the big CHARITIES.   

Give the charity the details of the executor/administrator and let them pursue them for their legacy.    Would that work?