Co-owners of freehold selling their flat

arciere

Our neighbours are selling their flat, and we only found that out because today we got an email from a solicitor asking us to verify our identity (I decided to call them directly because I was unsure if it was a scam email)

We were never approached by our neighbours about this and they admitted giving our personal details to their solicitors without checking with us first.

The property has two converted flats (2 flats in total) and both flats own a share of the freehold (50% each) as tenants in common.

My questions are:

1) Is there anything we need to do, as co-owners, when they decide to sell their flat?
2) Do we have the right to say 'hold on a minute' before we sign anything, as the relationship with them has been awful to say the least? We had a number of issues with a portion of the garden that is shared (which is part of the freehold), and we would like to sort that out before the new owner comes in
3) Is it worth appointing a solicitor to be on the safe side, or, for us, is it just a simple process to allow the new buyer to take over their share of the freehold?

They've tried to obstruct every single thing or project that we have ever done, so trust is below zero and we certainly don't want to engage in legal conversations with a random solicitor that we've never heard of.

mebu60

You could inform their solicitor that there are some outstanding issues and disputes that the sellers would need to declare to any prospective buyers that the solicitors might suggest to their client that they resolve to your satisfaction asap before they, the sellers, have to complete the relevant forms. 
Otherwise sounds like you should facilitate whatever it takes to get the sale through and new co-owners in! 

eddddy

• Currently, you and "Mr A" jointly own a freehold building.

• Presumably, the goal is to transfer ownership to you and "Mr B" (the buyer of the other flat).

• So you'll have to participate in the process of transferring ownership of a property to new owners.

I'm not sure why you'd want to "hold on a minute" - if the neighbours are awful, don't you want to do everything possible to help them sell and move out as quickly as possible?  If you make a fuss, it's likely to scare the new buyers away.

What needs to be sorted with the garden before the neighbour moves in? Presumably the leases are clear about use of the garden. (Or are you suggesting that the leases need to be changed? Changing the leases would probably be a big deal.)


I guess there's no harm in appointing a solicitor to advise you, but I suspect there might be arguments about who should pay the solicitor's fee. (Your neighbour might feel that it's 'over the top' for you to hire your own solicitor.)

Brie

Is there any prospect of you buying the complete freehold so that you can do as you like in the future?  And charge the new owners of the flat an appropriate amount to ensure all the necessaries get done??

If so then I'd definitely be talking to my own solicitor about your side of things.

arciere

mebu60 said:

You could inform their solicitor that there are some outstanding issues and disputes that the sellers would need to declare to any prospective buyers that the solicitors might suggest to their client that they resolve to your satisfaction asap before they, the sellers, have to complete the relevant forms. 
Otherwise sounds like you should facilitate whatever it takes to get the sale through and new co-owners in! 

To be totally honest, the front garden is only one of the issues, but maybe the only one that could also affect new buyers.
Over the years a number of plants/trees/flowers have been removed (by the owner of the other flat) without permissions, just because the lady is scared of everything green. Now the front garden is a mess and we decided to stop spending time and money on it until we could reach an agreement (which never came).

RHemmings

In your situation I might be tempted to do everything I can to help the sale progress and get rid of them. While watching my own back. 

arciere

eddddy said:

• Currently, you and "Mr A" jointly own a freehold building.

• Presumably, the goal is to transfer ownership to you and "Mr B" (the buyer of the other flat).

• So you'll have to participate in the process of transferring ownership of a property to new owners.

I'm not sure why you'd want to "hold on a minute" - if the neighbours are awful, don't you want to do everything possible to help them sell and move out as quickly as possible?  If you make a fuss, it's likely to scare the new buyers away.

What needs to be sorted with the garden before the neighbour moves in? Presumably the leases are clear about use of the garden. (Or are you suggesting that the leases need to be changed? Changing the leases would probably be a big deal.)

Your assumptions are correct, although I don't know if 'jointly' owning the freehold is the same as tenants in common.

The leases are very unclear about everything. This was a house that two brothers decided to buy and convert into flats, one for each, and never bothered setting up a leasehold agreement. This was done when they decided to sell the flats (to us), so the solicitors at the time took a 'generic' leasehold contract and applied it to the property. Some of the things mentioned in the lease are non-sensical because they apply to buildings with common areas, which we don't have.

The front garden is not part of the leasehold either, only the freehold. The problem we have with the front garden specifically is that, over the years, they managed to destroy/cut a number of plants and trees because they didn't like them, without prior agreement (sometimes doing the exact opposite to what was agreed). At one point we decided to stop spending time and money on it because we could see where it was all going. The end result is that the garden is now in a terrible state and looks like a mini-jungle.

arciere

Brie said:
Is there any prospect of you buying the complete freehold so that you can do as you like in the future?  And charge the new owners of the flat an appropriate amount to ensure all the necessaries get done??

If so then I'd definitely be talking to my own solicitor about your side of things.

We actually never thought about that, and it could be something that we might want to discuss with them. The issue is, if they've appointed a solicitor, I can assume they have already found a potential buyer, which I'm sure won't be pleased if the share of the freehold is no longer in the deal.

I know this may sound a bit weird, but we've had a really bad relationship with them (to the point that we had to call the police because the lady downstairs got violent), so I am trying to be very cautious before agreeing to anything with a solicitor that they have appointed.

eddddy

arciere said:

The leases are very unclear about everything. This was a house that two brothers decided to buy and convert into flats, one for each, and never bothered setting up a leasehold agreement. This was done when they decided to sell the flats (to us), so the solicitors at the time took a 'generic' leasehold contract and applied it to the property. Some of the things mentioned in the lease are non-sensical because they apply to buildings with common areas, which we don't have.

Has a solicitor suggested that there is a problem with the leases? For example, your solicitor when you bought?

The lease might mention some "rules" about common areas - if there are no common areas in your building, then those rules won't apply to any areas in your building. That isn't really a problem.

arciere said:

The front garden is not part of the leasehold either, only the freehold. The problem we have with the front garden specifically is that, over the years, they managed to destroy/cut a number of plants and trees because they didn't like them, without prior agreement (sometimes doing the exact opposite to what was agreed). At one point we decided to stop spending time and money on it because we could see where it was all going. The end result is that the garden is now in a terrible state and looks like a mini-jungle.

So the current owners have messed-up the front garden. So as I said, that means it's good that they're selling and moving out. Hopefully the new owners will be better behaved.

It sounds like the freeholder has retained ownership of the front garden. That's not particularly unusual.


It sounds like you're saying you want variations of both leases to change things. That will add huge cost and huge complexity to the sale - plus you'll need to get everyone's consent.

arciere

eddddy said:

Has a solicitor suggested that there is a problem with the leases? For example, your solicitor when you bought?

No, this never happened. Although we did have two separate solicitors looking after the sale (one after the other), nothing got flagged. I'm not saying it's a problem, only that on many occasions we've had to 'interpret' what the lease was saying, trying to adapt it to the actual building.

eddddy said:

So the current owners have messed-up the front garden. So as I said, that means it's good that they're selling and moving out. Hopefully the new owners will be better behaved.

100% and I certainly don't want to get off on the wrong foot with them for things they know nothing about.

eddddy said:

It sounds like you're saying you want variations of both leases to change things. That will add huge cost and huge complexity to the sale - plus you'll need to get everyone's consent.

I'm not sure this is what I'm after. We purchased both flats (at the same time) as well as the freehold which included the building and a very-well maintained front garden. Over the years, and on several occasions, they removed/damaged/destroyed parts of this shared garden.

All we want is to sort this out (compensation? call a gardener and replace plants?) before the new owners arrive. Because, once their share of the freehold is transferred/sold, they will no longer be responsible for that and we would need to bear all the costs to make the garden presentable again (and the new buyers could rightfully say "this is what I bought, I won't spend a penny").

Does this need to be part of our leases, or can we simply say "we must sort this out before we can sign whatever we need to sign to transfer the freehold"?

Schwarzwald

if you can block the transaction, i would consider it.
the seller apparently wants to sell and move on, so it puts them into a position where they want something from you.
why give this for free?

i would tell them that you want to get [abc] sorted first and while engage with their solicitor, not resolve what they are after.
if they are serious about the sale, they will move towards you.

you know what you want, freehold, etc., i would put this forward.