Possible defence upcoming, worth adding this?

kensiko

Hi all

It's not got to this stage yet, but I am expecting a claim from Carpark Securities in the next few months as it is now at the stage of debt collectors letters which are being ignored.

Just being proactive and getting everything ready and just wanted to know if it was worth putting something in the area where you 'tell the story'.  This is just Para 3 from the very helpful template with everything below its being copied as normal.

I am thinking of adding this:

The defendant paid £4.90 for ‘All Day’ parking as per the signage.  Following an appeal, which was rejected, the claimant stated, “The transaction relating to this registration covered parking for 4 hours, however the vehicle was in the car park for 4 hours and 20 minutes which exceeds the extra time we allow.  The other transaction you have provided receipt of is not linked to the payment on the system for this registration.  It does not show which registration this payment was made for, therefore as stated it is not a parking ticket”.  It is up to the claimant to provide this proof as the payment was made at the exact date and time of the alleged contravention.

The tariffs and the receipt are shown below.

The time of the receipt is 09:59 and the time on the PCN is 14:17 which is 4 hrs 18 mins, which they seem to have rounded up to 4hrs 20 mins.

Unfortunately the actual parking ticket is nowhere to be found which is why they state 'it is not a parking ticket' in their appeal rejection and shows on the receipt.

Is it worth adding this information to any upcoming defence?  Am I correct that they should have to prove the receipt is linked to the correctly purchased all day ticket?

Thanks to one and all.

Coupon-mad

"expecting a claim from Carpark Securities"

Never heard of them. Doubt they will sue.

And if they do, chances are the Particulars of Claim won't even state what the alleged breach was, in which case you DON'T go into detail in the defence.

kensiko

Coupon-mad said:

"expecting a claim from Carpark Securities"

Never heard of them. Doubt they will sue.

And if they do, chances are the Particulars of Claim won't even state what the alleged breach was, in which case you DON'T go into detail in the defence.

They do seem to be a fairly new entity around the North West of England.

I do find it amusing they can't get their email address correct at the bottom of the signage in question though:


Let's hope they added 'www.contact@' as an alias as there contact page states it's just 'contact@'
https://www.carparksecurities.com/contact/

And classic FAQ(s?):
https://www.carparksecurities.com/faq/

I am sure you are correct though, it won't go any further and if it did the standard defence would probably be enough, I just wondered if it was worth adding at all.

Thanks.

Coupon-mad

Please could you add a redacted copy (front & back) of the Notice to keeper here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6483542/a-thread-of-pictures-of-2023-parking-firm-ntks/p1

Thanks! 

kensiko

Coupon-mad said:

Please could you add a redacted copy (front & back) of the Notice to keeper here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6483542/a-thread-of-pictures-of-2023-parking-firm-ntks/p1

Thanks! 

No problem, that has just been done.

Apologies for the image and cropping, it was how I received it.

Castle

Thanks to the VAT Checker, here's their Registered business address

HALLMARK COURT
132 MANCHESTER ROAD
ROCHDALE
LANCASHIRE
OL11 4JQ
GB

kensiko

Castle said:

Thanks to the VAT Checker, here's their Registered business address

HALLMARK COURT
132 MANCHESTER ROAD
ROCHDALE
LANCASHIRE
OL11 4JQ
GB

Nice find, I didnt notice they only had a registered office and a PO Box on the website.

Looks like they are new as streetview for 2020 shows the property to let.

I should maybe go round to say hello and see how they are all doing 

1505grandad

"I should maybe go round to say hello and see how they are all doing "

Be sure to take some  Scammy Dodgers with you.

kensiko

Quick update on this PCN.  A LBC has been issued, I still personally do not think they will make the claim but we will see.

In response to the LBC, the keeper emailed the usual 'PAP' queries and received the following answers:

"We refer you to the International Parking Community Code of Practice Version 9, paragraph 15.3 which permits a debt recovery fee to be added should the parking charge remain unpaid and this is clearly stated on the signage in the car park which we presume you read and in our letters to you. The fee does not include VAT."

"All charges are issued for breach of contract as you have failed to adhere to the terms and conditions of the legally binding contract between ourselves, they have nothing to do with damages."

It all sounds very similar to https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6456632/help-needed-multiple-tickets-in-a-row-for-parking-outside-my-own-house/p6 

I am not really planning on doing anything with this info but was just curious to their answers.
Or is it worth following CMs suggestions in the most recent post of the above thread?

Just for extra info, it seems they use their own 'experts' for this as it's the same company but the letters are from the 'Litigation Department'.



The £70 'Administration Charge' must not be VAT applicable!

In all honesty, I don't understand much about the ins and outs of companies paying VAT but does this mean they are saying the £100 original parking charge is inclusive of VAT, but the administration charge (debt recovery fee) is NOT?  So they would have to file every one of these as £100 INC and £70 EXC if that is even possible?  It may well be possible, as I said, I am not 100% sure so will be interesting to find out.

Will see the POC if they do start a claim and go from there.

Coupon-mad

PCNs do not attract VAT.  They should, but they don't. Not yet anyway.

Admin fees and debt recovery fees or commissions for collecting monies DO fall within VAT scope.  So ask them what they mean by this:

"The fee does not include VAT." 

Point out that DRA and/or 'Admin fees' DO fall within the scope of VAT and before you report them to HMRC you want to check whether their client is paying VAT on this fee, or are they suggesting it is exempt?

Umkomaas

Can we see a redacted copy of their LBC please?