Cooling off period

Grumpy_chap

Cheechee said:

The thing is I NEVER saw the car before it was delivered to me. I test drove a different spec car from a different dealership which is definitely not linked to the dealership I bought the car from. They didn't have what I wanted so I looked elsewhere. Although the cars might be almost identical, they are not the same.

This is critical to the whole issue around whether the CCR 14-days right to cancel for remote purchase applies.

The Dealerships may be connected even if they have different brands.  You have chosen not to say where you purchased the car from or which Dealer provided the test drive.  Have you done your own research to be absolutely certain that the two Dealerships are not connected in any way?

Even if the Dealerships are unconnected businesses, I genuinely do not know in the case of a car whether a centralised manufacturer's record of test drives would break the "never visited a store" part of CCR remote purchase.  It is quite different to a sofa where you could visit, say SCS, but then buy from DFS under remote purchase as the sofa showroom does not normally retain records of the customer who walked in and sat on the sofa.  With car test drives, there is always a record of that event retained.

Your comments about seeing a slightly different spec are, I think, turning on a pin-head.  It is very rare that a test drive is exactly the same car, trim, colour etc. as the car eventually purchased.  With brand new cars, you are not usually seeing the exact car.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Grumpy_chap said:

Even if the Dealerships are unconnected businesses, I genuinely do not know in the case of a car whether a centralised manufacturer's record of test drives would break the "never visited a store" part of CCR remote purchase.  It is quite different to a sofa where you could visit, say SCS, but then buy from DFS under remote purchase as the sofa showroom does not normally retain records of the customer who walked in and sat on the sofa.  With car test drives, there is always a record of that event retained.

EU guidance stipulates the following:  

 Recital 20 provides further explanations of this concept, including examples of means of distance communication: ‘The definition of distance contract should cover all cases where a contract is concluded between the trader and the consumer under an organised distance sales or service-provision scheme, with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication ( such as mail order, internet, telephone or fax ) up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded. That definition should also cover situations where the consumer visits the business premises merely for the purpose of gathering information about the goods or services and subsequently negotiates and concludes the contract at a distance. By contrast, a contract which is negotiated at the business premises of the trader and finally concluded by means of distance communication should not be considered a distance contract. Neither should a contract initiated by means of distance communication, but finally concluded at the business premises of the trader be considered a distance contract. Similarly, the concept of distance contract should not include reservations made by a consumer through a means of distance communications to request the provision of a service from a professional, such as in the case of a consumer phoning to request an appointment with a hairdresser. […]’.

Aylesbury_Duck

Cheechee said:

Sorry, what is murky and what tangle have I got myself into?

RefluentBeans said:

Cheechee said:

Sorry, what is murky and what tangle have I got myself into?

It's very simple, 
I wanted a new car.
Considered cashing in pensions (too difficult).
Bought a car on finance.
Not happy with car and want to return within cooling off period.
Wanted to settle the finance so this wouldn't be a stumbling block.
Kind family member has loaned me money.
Money will be paid back when car refunded.
New car will be bought on finance.

What is murky about that and what tangle in what circumstances.

Hopefully someone will come along and answer a few questions I can't seem to get an answer to

What would my next steps be if I don't hear from the dealer?

Would I get court fees back if I start a claim but the dealer doesn't let it get that far?

Is money claims online any good?

It’s murky because it seems from reading this thread you wanted to take advantage of an incentive (great - that’s fine - and very money saving) but you had no intention of keeping the vehicle. You then paid off the debt as soon as possible (using someone else’s money) to avoid issues with returning the car. In addition there are now questions regarding a UC claim and not wanting to have certain money in your account so you could get benefits. All of which, taken together, seems that you bought the car in bad faith to get an incentive, paid off the debt (with someone else’s money) to make the process go as easy as possible, and looking at moving money around various accounts to hide from UC. 

All of this.  I said it comes across as murky, only you know whether your intentions and actions are entirely genuine.  As I said before, the legal processes are there if you need them, but it's likely that the dealer will put up a strong case and therefore in turn, your case is going to have to be good.  That, combined with the value involved, leads me to recommend getting proper legal advice, and no solicitor is going to want to represent you without knowing exactly what's going on in the background.  If there is anything murky in what you're doing, it's going to fail at that point.  If everything is as straightforward as you say, then I think you have a very strong case to return the car for a refund, minus any reasonable expenses that are appropriate.

Cheechee

Thanks for everyone's views so far.

I can assure you that everything is genuine.

Just a quick point on the dealership I test drove car from and where I bought it. I'm 100% sure they are not connected in anyway (apart from obviously selling the same make of car)

So I'm guessing my next steps are

Wait for a reply from the dealer and if I I'm not satisfied instruct a solicitor.

Are there any no win no fee solicitors anyone can recommend or a website I can choose a solicitor who can deal with this?

born_again

I don't get where paying off the finance is going to make it any easier to return car. In effect here, they were your friend..
Other than you did not want UC to see the finance payment & question it.

Aylesbury_Duck

Cheechee said:

Thanks for everyone's views so far.

I can assure you that everything is genuine.

Just a quick point on the dealership I test drove car from and where I bought it. I'm 100% sure they are not connected in anyway (apart from obviously selling the same make of car)

So I'm guessing my next steps are

Wait for a reply from the dealer and if I I'm not satisfied instruct a solicitor.

Are there any no win no fee solicitors anyone can recommend or a website I can choose a solicitor who can deal with this?

I wouldn't touch a no-win-no-fee solicitor for something like this.  I'd get word-of-mouth recommendations from family or friends.  Many local firms will offer a free initial consultation so both parties understand the gist of what's required before undertaking serious work and expense.

400ixl

You say there are minor issues with the car, are those minor issues not resolvable under the warranty? Would save a lot of hassle over rejecting the car and warranty issues can be done by a local manufacturers dealer, doesn't have to go back to the selling dealer 200 miles away.

What are you going to do if they refund the majority of your money (reducing for use) and you then go and buy another new model from yet another dealer and when you take ownership you find some minor issues with that one as well (as many new cars have some minor issues). Are you going to go through the whole cancellation process again.

What are the minor issues and can they really not be resolved to your satisfaction to keep the car?

Aylesbury_Duck

400ixl said:

You say there are minor issues with the car, are those minor issues not resolvable under the warranty? Would save a lot of hassle over rejecting the car and warranty issues can be done by a local manufacturers dealer, doesn't have to go back to the selling dealer 200 miles away.

What are you going to do if they refund the majority of your money (reducing for use) and you then go and buy another new model from yet another dealer and when you take ownership you find some minor issues with that one as well (as many new cars have some minor issues). Are you going to go through the whole cancellation process again.

What are the minor issues and can they really not be resolved to your satisfaction to keep the car?

This intrigues me, too.  Going to all this hassle, perhaps involving solicitors, to return a car with what sounds like a few minor rattles that could probably be fixed quite easily, only to buy an identical car straight away, seems really odd.  It's why some people are questioning OP's motives, specifically the way in which this situation could have been engineered to fit a UC assessment if the OP was minded to do so.

At the end of the day, I take the OP at their word that this is all above board - no matter how odd it looks - and so legal action would have to be their next step if they don't get a satisfactory response from the dealer.

powerful_Rogue

What's the secrecy around the miles on the clock when delivered and the miles showing when you stopped using it?

Cheechee

No secret I just don't know why people need to know! Would it help anyone answer any of my questions, probably not