Cooling off period

BoGoF

Cheechee said:

Yes, it is a brand new car fresh from the manufacturer.

'You must stop using the car if you reject it.'

Is this the law?

Even tho they haven't accepted my rejection, do I still need to stop using the car.

I'm happy to leave the car at home and not use it but only if the law says I have to.  The car is ready for them to collect at any time but if they are not acknowledging my right to reject, it seems unfair if I can't use it, perhaps I'm wrong on this point and happy to be corrected.

The counter argument would be you haven't really rejected it if you are driving about in. A weakish argument but I have seen it suggested before that you drop the car and keys at the dealers premises. Not sure how viable that is here.

Desmond_Hume

What are the “various reasons”..?

Alderbank

BoGoF said:

Cheechee said:

Yes, it is a brand new car fresh from the manufacturer.

'You must stop using the car if you reject it.'

Is this the law?

Even tho they haven't accepted my rejection, do I still need to stop using the car.

I'm happy to leave the car at home and not use it but only if the law says I have to.  The car is ready for them to collect at any time but if they are not acknowledging my right to reject, it seems unfair if I can't use it, perhaps I'm wrong on this point and happy to be corrected.

The counter argument would be you haven't really rejected it if you are driving about in. A weakish argument but I have seen it suggested before that you drop the car and keys at the dealers premises. Not sure how viable that is here.

That sounds like rejecting a car under the Consumer Rights Act because of 'significant' faults. Often the argument of whether faults are significant enough to justify rejection under that law are based around whether the vehicle can be driven safely.

Although the word 'rejection' has been used here, this case is really about cancelling the contract under regulation 29 of CCR 2013, a different law. That reg says that provided the consumer has clearly cancelled within the time period, the trader can't argue against it.

Grumpy_chap

Cheechee said:

I bought a new car online, transactions were all done via email/phone calls and I didn't ever go to the dealership. Car was delivered to me. This was an off premises sale/distance sale.

I want to reject the car for various reasons (however I know I don't need to give a reason in the cooling off period). I've had the car 3 days.

I've contacted the dealer buy phone and email with no satisfactory response.

I've sent sent a final rejection email asking for the car to be collected and to be refunded within 14 days. I don't hold out much hope they will reply.

The dealership is not accredited to the motor ombudsman.

What will my next steps be if they don't respond.

I was looking into money claims online, is this a good route? Any other route

Would I get the fee back?

I know I'm within my rights to reject the car.

How can I get the dealership to play by the law?

Just to clarify.

You purchased a brand new car totally online for £37k
The car was delivered three days ago and you now wish to cancel the order under CCR.  
You notified the Dealership
You await a response from the Dealership.
You paid on finance but have already settled the finance. 
Did the finance include any "incentive"?

It might be too soon to be considering going legal.  I suspect the Dealership is verifying whether the CCR change of mind truly applies, amongst other factors.  For example, did you ever visit the Dealership to view the car?

Is the Dealership a franchised dealer supplying the brand new car?  

Is this the car you drew down pension funds to finance?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6486837/cashing-in-private-pension-to-buy-a-car#latest

Cheechee

The motor ombudsman says this

If you do wish to reject your new car, then you will need to stop using it immediately and notify the seller and/or finance company – not the manufacturer – of your intention to reject

Car is now on the drive and won’t be used again.  I’ve taken a photo of the miles.

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So presumably you cancelled the Finance? It's a pity and probably a mistake else you would have had a S75a claim against them if you cannot get the merchant to play ball but having cancelled it that option has gone. 

This is not relevant because I’m rejecting the car within the 14 day cooling off period which I know I’m entitled to do.

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This is the legislation I’m rejecting the car under

The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

For people who buy their cars at a distance, normally online, they have additional rights under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. This is because people buying products at a distance don’t have the opportunity to view and inspect them before making their decision to buy, so the Regulations mean consumers have an opportunity to decide whether they’d like to keep the product or not, and can return it if they don’t want it without having to prove it’s in some way faulty or misdescribed.

What are the 14 day cancellation rights UK?

During the 14-day cancellation (or cooling off) period, a consumer can cancel their order for any reason. It is not necessary that the goods or services are faulty. This is very applicable to goods and services bought online, and one of several key website legal requirements.

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What are the “various reasons

Not relevant to this situation

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Although the word 'rejection' has been used here, this case is really about cancelling the contract under regulation 29 of CCR 2013, a different law. That reg says that provided the consumer has clearly cancelled within the time period, the trader can't argue against it.

Yes, apologies if I’ve confused people with the word rejection

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Just to clarify.

You purchased a brand new car totally online for £37k - yes
The car was delivered three days ago and you now wish to cancel the order under CCR.  - yes
You notified the Dealership - yes
You await a response from the Dealership. - yes
You paid on finance but have already settled the finance. - yes
Did the finance include any "incentive"? – a small amount from the dealership who clarified that if I pay off the finance in full there would be no penalties for doing so

It might be too soon to be considering going legal.  - I’m happy to wait for a response but really just wanted to know what my options were if I don’t get a response

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I suspect the Dealership is verifying whether the CCR change of mind truly applies, amongst other factors. 

can you tell me what might go against me

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 - -For example, did you ever visit the Dealership to view the car? 

No, all transactions done via email/phone.  First time I saw the car was when it was delivered to me
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Is the Dealership a franchised dealer supplying the brand new car?  

yes, would this be a problem?

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Thanks for everyone’s input.

I’m fairly confident I have the right to reject/cancel the contract (unless anyone can tell me differently).  I really just wanted to know what my options are if it’s not resolved with the dealer.  As said previously, I am happy to await their response but just getting things straight in my head should I need to take it further.

can anyone help answer this question?

 

Grumpy_chap

Cheechee said:

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Just to clarify.

You purchased a brand new car totally online for £37k - yes
The car was delivered three days ago and you now wish to cancel the order under CCR.  - yes
You notified the Dealership - yes
You await a response from the Dealership. - yes
You paid on finance but have already settled the finance. - yes
Did the finance include any "incentive"? – a small amount from the dealership who clarified that if I pay off the finance in full there would be no penalties for doing so

It might be too soon to be considering going legal.  - I’m happy to wait for a response but really just wanted to know what my options were if I don’t get a response

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I suspect the Dealership is verifying whether the CCR change of mind truly applies, amongst other factors. 

can you tell me what might go against me

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 - -For example, did you ever visit the Dealership to view the car? 

No, all transactions done via email/phone.  First time I saw the car was when it was delivered to me
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Is the Dealership a franchised dealer supplying the brand new car?  

yes, would this be a problem?

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I asked about the Dealership being a franchised Dealer because at the start of the thread you said:

Cheechee said:

The dealership is not accredited to the motor ombudsman.

but a franchised Dealership will be fully accredited and will also follow the law.



What you have done with regard to the finance to secure the "incentive" is quite common.
Paying it down so very quickly will not have made you friends with the Dealership.
If you cancel the contract and return the car, you will also have to return whatever "incentive" was attached to the finance part of the deal.



If this was a totally remote purchase then, as you note, the CCR allows you to cancel the contract within 14-days of receipt for any or no reason.
The general rule on this is that you can test the product to the same extent you could test a display product in a showroom.
I do not know how the rules apply in the case of a brand new car.  Having the car registered to you and putting a few miles on the car makes the brand new car now a second hand car.  It is complicated.  I am sure there will be others here that can comment on how CCR cancellation of a brand new car would work in practice.

When did you place the order for the car?
Is this the car you mentioned in your other thread?  Funded by pension drawdown.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6486837/cashing-in-private-pension-to-buy-a-car
It just seems odd that anyone buying a car as a properly considered purchase, as you clearly were by looking at the financing options in November, would select a car without any viewing / test drive.

This feeds into my comments about the Dealer will be checking whether CCR applies and might then identify what might have gone against you.
You say you did not see a car at this Dealership.
Did you see and test drive a car at any Dealership?  It is quite possible that the supplying Dealer is checking test drive records through their chain and / or the wider manufacturer franchises.


Is this purely a "buyer's remorse" change of mind?
It is just, you also mentioned:

Cheechee said:

I want to reject the car for various reasons 

What are the "various reasons"? 
I note you said above that they are not relevant, but did you mention any of these to the supplying Dealer?


With regard to awaiting a response form the Dealer, was it only today that you notified them of the cancellation?
What time?

Have you accepted that the cancellation will require the full package to be cancelled (return the finance "incentive") or have you tried to cancel the order and keep the "incentive"?

Alderbank

I am sure that you have the right to cancel and the dealer must refund in full.

Dealers do not like to take cars back. It is expensive for them.
Dealers really do not like to take brand new cars back. It is very expensive for them.
Future buyers will be suspicious why you returned it as soon as you clapped eyes on it. He will probably have to pass it on inside the motor trade at a substantial loss.
He will be very awkward and obstructive. His 'legal team' will send you warning letters. You will certainly have to threaten to take him to court and be serious about that (though he may cave in at the court-room steps).
However, before that he will probably try to sweet-talk you into keeping it.
You haven't told us why you are now refusing it, having chosen, waited and paid for it, but you very much have the upper hand - reconsider why you originally chose it and whether there could be a deal which might change your mind.
But of course don't commit to anything until you are sure (you don't sound like the type who would do that)!

Cheechee

I asked about the Dealership being a franchised Dealer because at the start of the thread you said:

Cheechee said:

The dealership is not accredited to the motor ombudsman.

but a franchised Dealership will be fully accredited and will also follow the law.

So, this is actually a bit confusing.  The dealership I bought from has quite a number of dealerships around the UK.  All of the other branches selling different makes of cars are accredited to the motor ombudsman but when I spoke to the TMO they said that this particular branch hadn't renewed their subscription.  All the other branches are accredited.  They all do still come under one main name/dealer (if that makes sense??)

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What you have done with regard to the finance to secure the "incentive" is quite common.
Paying it down so very quickly will not have made you friends with the Dealership.

The dealership were aware this is what I wanted to do (I rang and checked with them before I payed anything) and told me there would be no penalties for doing so.
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If you cancel the contract and return the car, you will also have to return whatever "incentive" was attached to the finance part of the deal. 

I have no problem paying back if I owe anything.
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If this was a totally remote purchase then, as you note, the CCR allows you to cancel the contract within 14-days of receipt for any or no reason.
The general rule on this is that you can test the product to the same extent you could test a display product in a showroom.
I do not know how the rules apply in the case of a brand new car.  Having the car registered to you and putting a few miles on the car makes the brand new car now a second hand car.  It is complicated.  I am sure there will be others here that can comment on how CCR cancellation of a brand new car would work in practice.

I'm sure I've read something on the TMO (The Motor Ombudsman) website this rule applies to new cars and when I did ring TMO I wasn't told otherwise.  The only problem I had with TMO was that this particular branch was no longer accredited and they couldn't help me further other than sending me an email to say i had been in touch in case it was needed as evidence for a court hearing.
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When did you place the order for the car?

Order was placed a few weeks ago.  The car was at the import center which is why i had to wait a few weeks for delivery

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Is this the car you mentioned in your other thread?  Funded by pension drawdown.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6486837/cashing-in-private-pension-to-buy-a-car
It just seems odd that anyone buying a car as a properly considered purchase, as you clearly were by looking at the financing options in November, would select a car without any viewing / test drive.

This was an option I was considering in my other thread however I didn't go this route in the end, it was far too complicated.
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This feeds into my comments about the Dealer will be checking whether CCR applies and might then identify what might have gone against you.
You say you did not see a car at this Dealership.

No, the dealership is about 2 hours away.
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Did you see and test drive a car at any Dealership?  It is quite possible that the supplying Dealer is checking test drive records through their chain and / or the wider manufacturer franchises.

Yes, I did test drive a car (different trim level tho) at a dealership near me but both dealerships are not part of the same chain. Surely test driving a different car from a different garage not connected to where I bought it from can't go against me, can it???

I really wanted to get the top trim level which the dealership near me didn't have in stock and their price was considerably higher to get one from the import center. I looked around for the best deal which was a dealership not close to me.
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Is this purely a "buyer's remorse" change of mind?
It is just, you also mentioned:

Cheechee said:

I want to reject the car for various reasons 

What are the "various reasons"? 
I note you said above that they are not relevant, but did you mention any of these to the supplying Dealer?

The reason I said they are not relevant was because the legislation I'm using to reject the car/cancel the contract states that no reason needs to be given.

The various reasons are minor such as things on the car that don't seem to fit properly which I have told the dealer about and sent photos.  I guess it is kind of a buyers remorse but not in the sense that I shouldn't have bought a car.  I like the car, just not this particular one.  I feel upset that it is brand new but there are things wrong with it.  I don't want them fixed when the car is so new.  As soon as I get my money back I will be getting another one so it's not really buyers remorse or a change of mind.  Perhaps people on here will think badly of me for saying this and may think I'm silly but spending a lot of money on a brand new car straight from the import center, I wanted it to be in pristine condition and not have to be taken a couple of hours away to be fixed

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With regard to awaiting a response form the Dealer, was it only today that you notified them of the cancellation?
What time?
Yesterday am

I will definitely give the dealer time (14 days I put in the email).  I really just want to know my options if I don't hear from them
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Have you accepted that the cancellation will require the full package to be cancelled (return the finance "incentive") or have you tried to cancel the order and keep the "incentive"?

Happy to pay back the incentive if required

Cheechee

He will be very awkward and obstructive. His 'legal team' will send you warning letters. You will certainly have to threaten to take him to court and be serious about that (though he may cave in at the court-room steps).

I'm not familiar with how the court works.

If I go down that route do I have to pay the fees upfront and would I loose the fees if the dealership did cave in at the court-room steps.  I would be serious about court which is why I already mentioned Money Claims Online.  How does this work.

What kind of warning letters?  They won't really bother me because I'm quite sure I can return the car under the legislation mentioned

Grumpy_chap

This is quite hard to follow and advise because of the withheld information.

Cheechee said:

Did you see and test drive a car at any Dealership?  It is quite possible that the supplying Dealer is checking test drive records through their chain and / or the wider manufacturer franchises.

Yes, I did test drive a car (different trim level tho) at a dealership near me but both dealerships are not part of the same chain. Surely test driving a different car from a different garage not connected to where I bought it from can't go against me, can it???

What is the brand of the Dealership where you took the test drive?
What is the brand of the Dealership from where you ordered the car?

It is possible that different brands are still the same group company.
I think the Dealership will try, with a brand new car purchase, to find any way that they can establish the CCR may not apply.

Cheechee said:

Is this the car you mentioned in your other thread?  Funded by pension drawdown.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6486837/cashing-in-private-pension-to-buy-a-car
It just seems odd that anyone buying a car as a properly considered purchase, as you clearly were by looking at the financing options in November, would select a car without any viewing / test drive.

This was an option I was considering in my other thread however I didn't go this route in the end, it was far too complicated.

In the other thread, you were concerned about the pension funds being in your account at the end of a UC assessment period.
It now seems you had £37k regardless of the pension.
Once you have the £37k back, you will need to declare this in your UC journal.