We Buy any Car - Changing their mind

HillStreetBlues

Okell said:

HillStreetBlues said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP just one thought, if you reluctantly end up with the car back* and plan to sell privately you can buy insurance for short periods, whilst more expensive per day it might be cheaper to buy a 30 day policy than pay cancellation fees on a yearly policy. 

*I don't think it's possible to force WBAC to pay**, as mentioned at the start of the thread you'd most likely be looking at selling again and claiming the short fall, plus any expenses in selling again, as damages. 

**I know courts can award specific performance, I'm not sure under what circumstances but a quick Google suggests when it would award "more complete and perfect justice", as you are looking to sell the car and end up with £43k in your hand awarding money as damages rather than specific performance seems to do the job really.  

Out of interest did you email their complaints team yet? 

Why not, WBAC have bought the car, the debt should be enforced like any other monies owed.

English courts are traditionally very reluctant to order specific performance where payment of damages will adequately compensate the claimant.

Normally in a situation like this the OP would simply sell their car to a third party for less than the price offered by WBAC, and the OP would then sue WBAC for the difference between their offer price and the price paid by the third party.

Or it could be argued here (if the OP wants to keep the car) that the OP's loss is the difference between WBAC's original offer price and their lower revised price.

I think a court is more likely to go down the damages/compensation route rather than specific performance.

[Edit:  TBH, like yourself and others, I'm not sure why WBAC don't just bite the bullet, accept that they've cocked this up, and just go ahead and buy the car.  They could even use it as advertising.  "Look how honest we are, even where we've made a mistake we still pay up..."]

I don't agree.
One example if you are in contract with a builder and builder fails to build wall then the court won't force the builder to build wall. But will award costs against builder for costs if 2nd builder is more expensive.
But in this case the wall has already been built by first builder.

So if the OP does take back the car, a court wouldn't force WBAC to buy the car again (but could claim costs if car sold at lower price, unless WBAC sticks a cause in),  but as long as the OP doesn't agree to the return, then OP can chase the debt.

Alderbank

Okell said:

HillStreetBlues said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP just one thought, if you reluctantly end up with the car back* and plan to sell privately you can buy insurance for short periods, whilst more expensive per day it might be cheaper to buy a 30 day policy than pay cancellation fees on a yearly policy. 

*I don't think it's possible to force WBAC to pay**, as mentioned at the start of the thread you'd most likely be looking at selling again and claiming the short fall, plus any expenses in selling again, as damages. 

**I know courts can award specific performance, I'm not sure under what circumstances but a quick Google suggests when it would award "more complete and perfect justice", as you are looking to sell the car and end up with £43k in your hand awarding money as damages rather than specific performance seems to do the job really.  

Out of interest did you email their complaints team yet? 

Why not, WBAC have bought the car, the debt should be enforced like any other monies owed.

[Edit:  TBH, like yourself and others, I'm not sure why WBAC don't just bite the bullet, accept that they've cocked this up, and just go ahead and buy the car.  They could even use it as advertising.  "Look how honest we are, even where we've made a mistake we still pay up..."]

Psychology?

WBAC's USP is that if you use them you will get your money quickly.
WBAC, along with their big brother BCA and their legal team, know a bit about buying and selling cars and also how customers who use their services think.

I reckon they will bite the bullet and buy the car eventually, but not just yet. They have plenty of parking space. They know that most of their customers (not all) would huff and puff and grumble but not be able to wait six months or more for a court hearing.

ArbitraryRandom

Okell said:

[Edit:  TBH, like yourself and others, I'm not sure why WBAC don't just bite the bullet, accept that they've cocked this up, and just go ahead and buy the car.  They could even use it as advertising.  "Look how honest we are, even where we've made a mistake we still pay up..."]

TBH, I would expect/hope this whole thing would be resolved at mediation before too long... 

HillStreetBlues

Alderbank said:

I reckon they will bite the bullet and buy the car eventually, but not just yet. They have plenty of parking space. They know that most of their customers (not all) would huff and puff and grumble but not be able to wait six months or more for a court hearing.

I agree, they will try it on in the hope to cut their losses, but I don't  see it going on 6 months, WBAC will fold before then as they might have the car space but £2k interest and a 6 month older car their loses would just increase.

maxmycardagain

Cazoo paid me while the collection driver stood here by the car, then, and only then, he got the keys.... and that was only £14,000

 

MeteredOut

[Edit:  TBH, like yourself and others, I'm not sure why WBAC don't just bite the bullet, accept that they've cocked this up, and just go ahead and buy the car.  They could even use it as advertising.  "Look how honest we are, even where we've made a mistake we still pay up..."]

Doesn't that depend on the WBAC business model? If each centre acts like a franchise (as suggested up thread), then the ~£10K hit would not necessarily be spread across the whole network, but would have to be borne out of the centre that made the mistake.

If so, its feasible that the centre who made the mistake is trying to fix things locally, could it be that the head office was not/is not even aware of the issue?

OP, has all your comms with WBAC been with the local team who made the mistake, or is head office involved?

Grumpy_chap

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I was think more of OP sells car and gets £42k privately, they've lost £1k plus the costs of selling again.

If WBAC are offering £33k with the intention of making a profit after overheads, VAT and auction fees I'm pretty confident OP would be getting £40k plus. 

@grumpy_chap might have thoughts on the car's value if OP sold it privately on Auto Trader or what have you. 

No special insight for the private sale value, especially as this is a rather specialist car.
In broad and general terms, the OP posted a listing for a car at a dealer listed at £47k.  The buyer will likely negotiate down from there and conclude a sale lower.  Maybe £44k?
WBAC are valuing the OP's trade in at £33k
A rough guide might be to split the difference, so private sale at £38k having advertised at £40k.  There may be sales routes via enthusiasts clubs that allow a private sale to be higher.
Unfortunately, this is so far from the type of car I'd ever be in a position to buy that I am not even really casually knowledgeable on values.

I don't think that the OP has mentioned the indicative compensation that WBAC have considered - I am not sure that WBAC have got so far as putting a suggested compensation amount in the discussions.

MeteredOut said:

Doesn't that depend on the WBAC business model? If each centre acts like a franchise (as suggested up thread), then the ~£10K hit would not necessarily be spread across the whole network, but would have to be borne out of the centre that made the mistake.

If so, its feasible, and the centre who made the mistake is trying to fix things locally, could it be that the head office was not/is not even aware of the issue?

I don't know how the WBAC business model works, it may be franchise as suggested.  If so, I suspect the level of training and discretion for the franchise staff is rather limited.
An individual turns up with a car and an indicative value generated by the central WBAC computer.
I suspect that WBAC have standard guides for deductions and values for each type of mark / damage that is identified.  For practical purposes, there must be a maximum as to how much such deductions can be before the seller simply walks away.  Depot staff may be incentivised with regard to their "accuracy" or "attention to detail" in spotting such blemishes.
In this case, WBAC themselves seem to have admitted (to the OP) that the car being the previous model version to the one initially valued was something that could only be determined by "a few industry experts".  Given there seems to be a WBAC depot in every town, the depot staff (whether franchise or not) cannot all be within the category of "a few industry experts".


From what has been presented here, it seems clear that WBAC have made a mistake.
Nothing that the OP has presented indicates that the OP was contributory - the OP may have been optimistic and, even, opportunistic in taking the attractive valuation, but not contributory to the error.
Assuming there is nothing in the detail that has not become obvious through the thread.  I do think the OP is being open and honest in the thread.
WBAC paid £43k for the car and believe they should have paid £33k.  Delta £10k.
I understand that the WBAC group (BCA) also own direct retail sites (Cinch?) so could put this car for a retail sale within the group and potentially realise the £44k I referenced at the start of this post.  That would still be a loss once the costs, prep, warranty are considered, but not a massive amount.
All the while WBAC hold the car it is costing them money (finance, space, depreciation) so a quick solution would seem to be attractive to all.


I acknowledge this post is a lot of discussion and uninformed speculation.  Perhaps there are individuals in the forum that have better insight into the valuation of these specialist types of cars and / or WBAC operations.

Bmd1989

I can only apologise. I’ve been busy with work and had to put this to one side mentally in all honesty. I’m not desperate for money but I’m also a stubborn !!!!!!. 

I ended up knuckling down and writing a proper letter, attached.

I won and so I should have! Thank you all, all thoughts was a great help I mean that. Great forum, hopefully this helps someone else. 

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Bmd1989

[Images removed by Forum Team]

Find attached my letter. I honestly celebrated to the cost come home, and I think I deserve it? Mentally broke me for a while that. I’m a hard working man. It wasn’t fair. Thanks to everyone for all open views 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Bmd1989 said:

 I think I deserve it? Mentally broke me for a while that. I’m a hard working man.

Thanks for coming back to let us know and great to hear they agreed to pay the original offer, I'd certainly say it was deserved