We Buy any Car - Changing their mind

HillStreetBlues

Bmd1989 said:

I have no idea what a CAP ID was mate! 

WBAC T&Cs https://www.webuyanycar.com/frequently-asked-questions/car-purchase-terms-and-conditions/

4. YOUR REPRESENTATIONS

If we buy a Car from you, we will be relying upon your representation that:

(a) you are legally capable of entering into a binding contract to sell the Car;

(b) you are at least 18 years old;

(c) to the best of your knowledge, information and belief:

(i) you are the sole legal and beneficial owner of the Car;

(ii) other than in respect of any finance outstanding on the Car which you have disclosed to us, no person has any claim to the Car;

(iii) the mileage reading on the Car is true and accurate and the odometer has not been tampered with;

(iv) you have disclosed to us all matters which a prudent purchaser would want to know about, such as physical defects in the Car (e.g. if it has any material mechanical problems or damage);

(v) all information supplied by you in respect of the Car (whether in obtaining an On-line Valuation, at any Appointment or otherwise) is true and accurate in all respects; and

(vi) the Car is registered in the UK; and

(d) you are not (nor are you acting on behalf of anyone who is) selling the Car in the general course of business.

In the event that we discover (at any time) that any of the above representations are (or are likely to be) inaccurate, untrue or false then we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to:

(a) request any documentation or information we deem necessary to determine whether the above representations are untrue or false; and/or

(b) withdraw any offer to buy the Car with immediate effect; and/or

(c) to rescind any Contract with immediate effect; and/or

(d) (where appropriate) seek damages from you.

a Yes you were (correct me if I'm wrong)
b Your are at least 18 (correct me if I'm wrong)
c You gave all information i to vi to the best of your knowledge, information and belief (correct me if I'm wrong)
d You are not in the business of selling cars (correct me if I'm wrong)

To void the contract one of a to d must be incorrect.

The fact they needed an expert to know that the CAP ID was incorrect, they will have trouble showing that it was likely you knew about the CAP ID being wrong.

I personally feel WBAC has little chance in winning if you go the full distance with it

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Bmd1989 said:

There you go. Like I said before they said they evaluated for the newer car shape and not my car. 

the newer model is classed as an M4 competition M, my car is not classed as an ‘M’ and the information is correct when carrying out my own checks. My one is just like the one below. Again I think their reason is !!!!!!. When buying it, I never over paid due to being established as wrong. Maybe I’m in the wrong.. im not in the car trade, I think their system isn’t correct and I’m taking the punch somewhere down the line for it. 

Same as my car, the car they’re trying to say they thought it was is a 60k car, in my opinion that still doesn’t tally up regarding profit, that would be a 20k+ profit! There is a rabbit off, hence approaching MSE for views and trying to fight this, otherwise I’d take my keys and carry on like I was last week but now leaving me in the situation like they have, I’m disappointed, last week this car was in my garage and my pride and joy, now its out of my control and could be in any state due to their f*ck up. 

The terms quoted at the start of the thread have a lot of clauses that all mention terminating the agreement if the customer fails to do something, here WBAC is blaming some third party that they rely on for an error so clearly they don’t have any reason to terminate as per the terms. 

That only leaves a mistake, given a human being, who should be an “expert”, looked at the car before signing the agreement but didn’t notice the body work was “wrong”, nor that the valuation was too high for the company margin how on Earth can OP be expected to know all this? 

I don’t think WBAC have much standing here other than hoping if they give the car back they’ll be off the hook if it can be sold for £43k meaning little to no loss other than the compensation they’ve already mentioned. 

£245 million profit over the last 24 months, you’d think they’d just admit their mistake and take the hit. 

ArbitraryRandom

I would agree that there's nothing in the terms (to my reading) to allow them to void the signed contract.

That said, now is the time for negotiation 'without prejudice'... because I know you would likely want to get every penny promised, but there will be a point where the difference between what you can agree and the contract price is small enough that court action wouldn't be worth the time/hassle - especially since you don't currently have use of the car and you're still liable to pay for it. 

IIRC, one offer was to pay you a reduced amount (£37k?) plus some unspecified on the thread amount of compensation... but could you please confirm if the new valuation plus compensation is lower than the originally agreed price by more or less than £10k? 

I ask because the threshold for a 'simple' (slow but relatively cheap) small claims case is less than £10k - above that the costs to bring a case are higher, it tends to be slower, and you need to start to worry about legal fees. Not saying it wouldn't be worth doing if the number is higher, but that it's more hassle so if it's only just above the threshold and you can negotiate them to just below it would be worth considering. 

Alderbank

HillStreetBlues said:

Bmd1989 said:

I have no idea what a CAP ID was mate! 

WBAC T&Cs https://www.webuyanycar.com/frequently-asked-questions/car-purchase-terms-and-conditions/

4. YOUR REPRESENTATIONS

If we buy a Car from you, we will be relying upon your representation that:

(a) you are legally capable of entering into a binding contract to sell the Car;

(b) you are at least 18 years old;

(c) to the best of your knowledge, information and belief:

(i) you are the sole legal and beneficial owner of the Car;

(ii) other than in respect of any finance outstanding on the Car which you have disclosed to us, no person has any claim to the Car;

(iii) the mileage reading on the Car is true and accurate and the odometer has not been tampered with;

(iv) you have disclosed to us all matters which a prudent purchaser would want to know about, such as physical defects in the Car (e.g. if it has any material mechanical problems or damage);

(v) all information supplied by you in respect of the Car (whether in obtaining an On-line Valuation, at any Appointment or otherwise) is true and accurate in all respects; and

(vi) the Car is registered in the UK; and

(d) you are not (nor are you acting on behalf of anyone who is) selling the Car in the general course of business.

In the event that we discover (at any time) that any of the above representations are (or are likely to be) inaccurate, untrue or false then we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to:

(a) request any documentation or information we deem necessary to determine whether the above representations are untrue or false; and/or

(b) withdraw any offer to buy the Car with immediate effect; and/or

(c) to rescind any Contract with immediate effect; and/or

(d) (where appropriate) seek damages from you.

a Yes you were (correct me if I'm wrong)
b Your are at least 18 (correct me if I'm wrong)
c You gave all information i to vi to the best of your knowledge, information and belief (correct me if I'm wrong)
d You are not in the business of selling cars (correct me if I'm wrong)

To void the contract one of a to d must be incorrect.

The fact they needed an expert to know that the CAP ID was incorrect, they will have trouble showing that it was likely you knew about the CAP ID being wrong.

...which is why they have offered compensation.

If they considered that the OP had knowingly mislead them they would be pursuing him for damages etc. as per their T&Cs.

OP, assuming the car is in exactly the same condition (I am sure you will check very carefully) when they deliver it back to you, does the compo they have offered cover your actual losses? What will it cost you to re-instate your insurance? What is the difference in value due to any messing about with the V5c?

If you take it to court WBAC will 'fess up they have fallen below their industry-leading standards (or similar guff) and say they are compensating you to cover all your losses. UK courts do not impose punitive fines, that is all you could expect.

Okell

If I were the OP I think I'd pursue this with WBAC.

WBAC seem to have admitted that the "error" only became apparent after both parties agreed to the sale/purchase.

I can't see that WBAC are attempting to fall back on any of the terms in the contract that would allow them to back out if the OP had misrepresented the vehicle.  I think they know it's down to their own error and that there's no reason to expect that the OP would have realised WBAC's error.  The OP hasn't tried to take advantage of it because they weren't aware of it.

Or the OP might be happy to take the car back - having negotiated suitable "compensation" for any damage, loss of value and inconvenience caused...

HillStreetBlues

Alderbank said:

...which is why they have offered compensation.

If they considered that the OP had knowingly mislead them they would be pursuing him for damages etc. as per their T&Cs.

OP, assuming the car is in exactly the same condition (I am sure you will check very carefully) when they deliver it back to you, does the compo they have offered cover your actual losses? What will it cost you to re-instate your insurance? What is the difference in value due to any messing about with the V5c?

If you take it to court WBAC will 'fess up they have fallen below their industry-leading standards (or similar guff) and say they are compensating you to cover all your losses. UK courts do not impose punitive fines, that is all you could expect.

And OP can reject the compensation and demand full price that both parties agree too.

Bmd1989

I genuinely thought it was a correct figure, I did think ‘well I’ve only lost a couple of grand’ but like I say cars are up and down. I never for one minute thought a multi million pound company has messed up and I’m taking advantage. This is their bread and butter.

Ok, what if it was the other way round, they made a mistake. Would they ring me and say, ‘Ben’ we evaluated wrongly and we need to give you X amount more? I very much doubt it, I signed their contact and I agreed? 

I don’t want to go round in circles either, but I can’t illiterate enough that being here is for my benefit. Also I know cars devaluate and depreciate in value but that’s over 1600 pm? Surly not? 

That car isn’t a banger, it’s a car you appreciate as an enthusiast, which I am. I have no control now what they’re doing with it and it’s left a dirty taste in my mouth to be totally honest. 

HillStreetBlues

Bmd1989 said:

I genuinely thought it was a correct figure, I did think ‘well I’ve only lost a couple of grand’ but like I say cars are up and down. I never for one minute thought a multi million pound company has messed up and I’m taking advantage. This is their bread and butter.

Ok, what if it was the other way round, they made a mistake. Would they ring me and say, ‘Ben’ we evaluated wrongly and we need to give you X amount more? I very much doubt it, I signed their contact and I agreed? 

I don’t want to go round in circles either, but I can’t illiterate enough that being here is for my benefit. Also I know cars devaluate and depreciate in value but that’s over 1600 pm? Surly not? 

That car isn’t a banger, it’s a car you appreciate as an enthusiast, which I am. I have no control now what they’re doing with it and it’s left a dirty taste in my mouth to be totally honest. 

The advice would be, you agreed the price and should have fully checked before you sold it, it's too late now.

ArbitraryRandom

Alderbank said:

If you take it to court WBAC will 'fess up they have fallen below their industry-leading standards (or similar guff) and say they are compensating you to cover all your losses. UK courts do not impose punitive fines, that is all you could expect.

I'm not sure what you're basing this on, but if I understand then I disagree. 

The courts do not impose punitive fines, but they can and do order both specific performance and compensatory damage - the intent in both being to put the injured party in the position they would have been in if the contract had not been breached (not if the contract had never existed). For the OP, that's to receive the contractually agreed price/for the seller to be ordered to complete the transaction OR the difference in price between the contractual price and the price they manage to secure selling it to someone else. 

Rescission (putting the parties back in their pre-contractual position) would only be likely if both parties had some culpability or it was a 'genuine and obvious mistake' where it would be materially unjust or unlawful to force compliance with the terms as agreed... 

The most common example I can think of is when someone has exchanged contracts to sell a house then tried to back out before completion - when they change their mind, or the chain collapses, or whatever other reason they have - they cannot simply pay for the buyers costs to that point plus some compensation and call it done, and it can prove ruinously expensive for the party at fault. 

Bmd1989

The lunatic is inside my head.. 

thank you, 100% my thoughts, it was evaluated in person after the online one too. I understand mistakes prior to a contract but it’s finished after that, maybe a car over an X amount should be dug deeper to signing a deal. Unprofessional.