We Buy any Car - Changing their mind

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Exodi said:

eskbanker said:

Bmd1989 said:

Also that means my car has dropped in price 2k month over 6 months of ownership.. That’s just wrong surly? 

Why would that be inherently wrong, when by your own admission the prices crashed recently?  You also need to factor in the WBAC margin, i.e. even if you sold to them the day after you bought, you shouldn't expect their offered price to be anywhere close to what you'd paid for it....

They sell all their cars at auction. 

I thought they sold then on themselves as a dealer, I guess their offers must be poor given you'd expect auction prices to be on the lower side.

Out of interest how does VAT work for them? Normally you'd buy with VAT, sell with VAT and effectively be paying VAT on the difference but when they buy from individuals there's no VAT to reclaim, does that mean they are paying out VAT on the whole sale price (minus whatever overheads they claim VAT back on), seems like they'd have a very expensive VAT bill?  

Exodi

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Exodi said:

eskbanker said:

Bmd1989 said:

Also that means my car has dropped in price 2k month over 6 months of ownership.. That’s just wrong surly? 

Why would that be inherently wrong, when by your own admission the prices crashed recently?  You also need to factor in the WBAC margin, i.e. even if you sold to them the day after you bought, you shouldn't expect their offered price to be anywhere close to what you'd paid for it....

They sell all their cars at auction. 

I thought they sold then on themselves as a dealer, I guess their offers must be poor given you'd expect auction prices to be on the lower side.

Out of interest how does VAT work for them? Normally you'd buy with VAT, sell with VAT and effectively be paying VAT on the difference but when they buy from individuals there's no VAT to reclaim, does that mean they are paying out VAT on the whole sale price (minus whatever overheads they claim VAT back on), seems like they'd have a very expensive VAT bill?  

An article from a quick google search ( https://barnfieldcars.co.uk/blog/the-truth-about-webuyanycar ), to save reading:

"The cars bought by Webuyanycar.com are sold at British Car Auctions (BCA) who own Webuyanycar.com under the UK Car Group banner. Most people who buy at these auctions are from the motor trade"

It's actually quite a relevant article in this discussion as it also points out some of the ways WBAC makes money, so worth a read. WBAC states on their FAQ's "When you sell a car to webuyanycar it is supplied back into the trade and may eventually be purchased by a trade or individual buyer."

Can't comment on how they calculate VAT, I'm sure some very well paid accountants make sure they don't have a very expensive VAT bill.

HillStreetBlues

Aylesbury_Duck said:

^^ I agree with this.  I think OP has a valid complaint here, because WBAC look to have messed up.  I can see why OP wants to take the money and run, it does look to be a deal that's too good to be true.

Yep WBAC has messed up and overpaid for a car. There is a misconception that as they overpaid that there is some sort of get-out cause  where WBAC can say we didn't mean to pay that much so we can cancel the contract. Even if it was a price glitch once that sale is finalised there is no going back.
Also the OP is a private individual, the normal Caveat Emptor applies.

Grumpy_chap

VAT on used cars uses the Margin Scheme.  Not the whole input price.
Different for vehicles that are owned by VAT-registered business.

ArbitraryRandom

Exodi said:

eskbanker said:

Bmd1989 said:

Also that means my car has dropped in price 2k month over 6 months of ownership.. That’s just wrong surly? 

Why would that be inherently wrong, when by your own admission the prices crashed recently?  You also need to factor in the WBAC margin, i.e. even if you sold to them the day after you bought, you shouldn't expect their offered price to be anywhere close to what you'd paid for it....

This. This point keeps being missed time and time and time again in this thread.

Even if the car is worth £44k or whatever at a dealer or on Auto Trader or whatever- WBAC WOULD NOT OFFER TO BUY A CAR FOR RETAIL PRICE. I really don't understand how people keep missing this. They need to make a margin on the car, and you can expect it will be a significant one. It also has one more owner than when the OP bought it.

We aren't missing it - WBAC made a mistake, no one is disputing that. 

It's just a secondary issue to if the contract is enforceable, given the mistake was only noticed AFTER two valuations and the contract was signed by both parties, or if WBAC have a right to void it. 

So the relevance is limited to if WBAC argue the mistake was genuine and 'should have been obvious' - whereas the OP can argue their status as an uninformed consumer as they point to the repeated valuation opportunities, other valuations for similar vehicles, and the recent significant fluctuations in the value of second hand cars... 

If the OP and WBAC can't settle this between themselves, I'd be hard pressed to pick a side which would win in court. 

HillStreetBlues

ArbitraryRandom said:

Exodi said:

eskbanker said:

Bmd1989 said:

Also that means my car has dropped in price 2k month over 6 months of ownership.. That’s just wrong surly? 

Why would that be inherently wrong, when by your own admission the prices crashed recently?  You also need to factor in the WBAC margin, i.e. even if you sold to them the day after you bought, you shouldn't expect their offered price to be anywhere close to what you'd paid for it....

This. This point keeps being missed time and time and time again in this thread.

Even if the car is worth £44k or whatever at a dealer or on Auto Trader or whatever- WBAC WOULD NOT OFFER TO BUY A CAR FOR RETAIL PRICE. I really don't understand how people keep missing this. They need to make a margin on the car, and you can expect it will be a significant one. It also has one more owner than when the OP bought it.

We aren't missing it - WBAC made a mistake, no one is disputing that. 

It's just a secondary issue to if the contract is enforceable, given the mistake was only noticed AFTER two valuations and the contract was signed by both parties, or if WBAC have a right to void it. 

So the relevance is limited to if WBAC argue the mistake was genuine and 'should have been obvious' - whereas the OP can argue their status as an uninformed consumer as they point to the repeated valuation opportunities, other valuations for similar vehicles, and the recent significant fluctuations in the value of second hand cars... 

If the OP and WBAC can't settle this between themselves, I'd be hard pressed to pick a side which would win in court. 

OP will win. It won't matter if there was a glitch with the price.
If I see a £1000 watch in shop marked up as £1. I can go in a offer a £1 for that watch, if the retailer sees the mistake the retailer can refuse the sale. If the retailer fails to notices it and accepts my £1, item is sold.
If I then go to walk out and retailer notices their mistake and wants to void contract, it's too late unless I agree to it. I do not have to return watch for a £1.

Okell

Bmd1989 said:

(Removed by Forum Team)

That’s a letter I sent to WBAC. 

Did you actually ask WBAC for an explanation for the reduction in value?  (Your letter was removed before I read it.  Post it again with personal identifying information redacted).

The only two valid explanations I can think of are (1) info revealed by the HPI check and/or (2) WBAC consider you to be in breach of clauses 4 and/or 5 of their contrcat terms.

As regards (1) have you HPI'd the car yourself?  I think @sheramber has asked a couple of times but you haven't answered.

As regards (2) are you 100% confident that you complied with their terms in respect of information given by you and what you provided at handover?

If neither (1) nor (2) apply you are going to have to persuade them that they are in the wrong.  If you end up having to sue them remember the "small claims" limit is £10k.  


[Edit: have you actually sought advice from CAB?  You posted earlier that you'd sent WBAC a letter with some "quotes from CAB" saying that WBAC were in breach of contract.  It's not clear whether you meant that CAB had actually told you that WBAC were in breach, or whether you'd just cut and pasted some template letter from a CAB website.  I find many of your posts difficult to understand.  Does the device you are using keep inserting predictive text or something?]

ArbitraryRandom

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Exodi said:

eskbanker said:

Bmd1989 said:

Also that means my car has dropped in price 2k month over 6 months of ownership.. That’s just wrong surly? 

Why would that be inherently wrong, when by your own admission the prices crashed recently?  You also need to factor in the WBAC margin, i.e. even if you sold to them the day after you bought, you shouldn't expect their offered price to be anywhere close to what you'd paid for it....

This. This point keeps being missed time and time and time again in this thread.

Even if the car is worth £44k or whatever at a dealer or on Auto Trader or whatever- WBAC WOULD NOT OFFER TO BUY A CAR FOR RETAIL PRICE. I really don't understand how people keep missing this. They need to make a margin on the car, and you can expect it will be a significant one. It also has one more owner than when the OP bought it.

We aren't missing it - WBAC made a mistake, no one is disputing that. 

It's just a secondary issue to if the contract is enforceable, given the mistake was only noticed AFTER two valuations and the contract was signed by both parties, or if WBAC have a right to void it. 

So the relevance is limited to if WBAC argue the mistake was genuine and 'should have been obvious' - whereas the OP can argue their status as an uninformed consumer as they point to the repeated valuation opportunities, other valuations for similar vehicles, and the recent significant fluctuations in the value of second hand cars... 

If the OP and WBAC can't settle this between themselves, I'd be hard pressed to pick a side which would win in court. 

OP will win. It won't matter if there was a glitch with the price.
If I see a £1000 watch in shop marked up as £1. I can go in a offer a £1 for that watch, if the retailer sees the mistake the retailer can refuse the sale. If the retailer fails to notices it and accepts my £1, item is sold.
If I then go to walk out and retailer notices their mistake and wants to void contract, it's too late unless I agree to it. I do not have to return watch for a £1.

It's very possible, but even then, as was touched on earlier in the thread, there's a few different remedies - including specific performance (requiring WBAC to buy at that price), or requiring the OP to accept the vehicle back to sell elsewhere (requiring WBAC to pay the difference), or some other solution that the judge on the day deems fair given the contract terms but might be less than ideal for the OP. 

Or there might even be something random in the contract like the OP has a 14 day cooling off period to reclaim their car and WBAC says they have the same right to cancel (as otherwise it would be unbalanced!) Not saying that is the case - just that it's a little premature (and overconfident) to assume the OP would definitely win.

Any court action is always three things: slow, expensive, and a risk. 

Okell

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Exodi said:

eskbanker said:

Bmd1989 said:

Also that means my car has dropped in price 2k month over 6 months of ownership.. That’s just wrong surly? 

Why would that be inherently wrong, when by your own admission the prices crashed recently?  You also need to factor in the WBAC margin, i.e. even if you sold to them the day after you bought, you shouldn't expect their offered price to be anywhere close to what you'd paid for it....

This. This point keeps being missed time and time and time again in this thread.

Even if the car is worth £44k or whatever at a dealer or on Auto Trader or whatever- WBAC WOULD NOT OFFER TO BUY A CAR FOR RETAIL PRICE. I really don't understand how people keep missing this. They need to make a margin on the car, and you can expect it will be a significant one. It also has one more owner than when the OP bought it.

We aren't missing it - WBAC made a mistake, no one is disputing that. 

It's just a secondary issue to if the contract is enforceable, given the mistake was only noticed AFTER two valuations and the contract was signed by both parties, or if WBAC have a right to void it. 

So the relevance is limited to if WBAC argue the mistake was genuine and 'should have been obvious' - whereas the OP can argue their status as an uninformed consumer as they point to the repeated valuation opportunities, other valuations for similar vehicles, and the recent significant fluctuations in the value of second hand cars... 

If the OP and WBAC can't settle this between themselves, I'd be hard pressed to pick a side which would win in court. 

OP will win. It won't matter if there was a glitch with the price.
If I see a £1000 watch in shop marked up as £1. I can go in a offer a £1 for that watch, if the retailer sees the mistake the retailer can refuse the sale. If the retailer fails to notices it and accepts my £1, item is sold.
If I then go to walk out and retailer notices their mistake and wants to void contract, it's too late unless I agree to it. I do not have to return watch for a £1.

Are you certain of that?  Why couldn't it be a unilateral mistake by the seller?

HillStreetBlues

Okell said:

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Exodi said:

eskbanker said:

Bmd1989 said:

Also that means my car has dropped in price 2k month over 6 months of ownership.. That’s just wrong surly? 

Why would that be inherently wrong, when by your own admission the prices crashed recently?  You also need to factor in the WBAC margin, i.e. even if you sold to them the day after you bought, you shouldn't expect their offered price to be anywhere close to what you'd paid for it....

This. This point keeps being missed time and time and time again in this thread.

Even if the car is worth £44k or whatever at a dealer or on Auto Trader or whatever- WBAC WOULD NOT OFFER TO BUY A CAR FOR RETAIL PRICE. I really don't understand how people keep missing this. They need to make a margin on the car, and you can expect it will be a significant one. It also has one more owner than when the OP bought it.

We aren't missing it - WBAC made a mistake, no one is disputing that. 

It's just a secondary issue to if the contract is enforceable, given the mistake was only noticed AFTER two valuations and the contract was signed by both parties, or if WBAC have a right to void it. 

So the relevance is limited to if WBAC argue the mistake was genuine and 'should have been obvious' - whereas the OP can argue their status as an uninformed consumer as they point to the repeated valuation opportunities, other valuations for similar vehicles, and the recent significant fluctuations in the value of second hand cars... 

If the OP and WBAC can't settle this between themselves, I'd be hard pressed to pick a side which would win in court. 

OP will win. It won't matter if there was a glitch with the price.
If I see a £1000 watch in shop marked up as £1. I can go in a offer a £1 for that watch, if the retailer sees the mistake the retailer can refuse the sale. If the retailer fails to notices it and accepts my £1, item is sold.
If I then go to walk out and retailer notices their mistake and wants to void contract, it's too late unless I agree to it. I do not have to return watch for a £1.

Are you certain of that?  Why couldn't it be a unilateral mistake by the seller?

https://www.expertanswers.co.uk/solicitors-advice/price-glitch-laws/

Price Glitch Item Purchased

When pricing errors are made and you have bought an incorrectly priced item, you are under no legal obligation to give the product back. There is only one situation in which the supplier can request additional money from you after purchase and this applies when there has been some discussion about the correct price of the item before you bought it.