ebay to request NI numbers from sellers

soolin

This thread is an off shoot of the thread below as there is a part that needs to be highlighted

eBay Private Seller - Self Assessment Tax Return?? — MoneySavingExpert Forum

This bit in the Guardian article needs to be checked carefully against anything formal from HMRC, the Guardian article is poorly written and I would prefer to try and find a source for the part quoted below

"Sellers on eBay will need to supply their national insurance number, and the site says it will launch information pages with the details it will be collecting."

I can imagine if ebay start requiring sellers to provide NI numbers, and proof thereof that we will see a lot of worried sellers. At the moment ebay do require verification once sales reach an (undisclosed) amount and even that results in sellers asking others whether this is legal, and how they protect their info, some sellers even flounce and leave rather than provide proof of ID, 

Ebay are obviously aware that they potentially have a high number of undeclared businesses operating on their site, they seem to ignore them at the moment but providing NI numbers to HMRC will be a quick and effective way of letting HMRC sort this out for them!

A simple computer programme matching NI numbers with self assessments forms is an easy way of identifying 'sellers of possible interest' , no confusion around different spellings of names, or slightly wrong addresses, it is a quick and direct way of linking people to declarations. 

I can think of one positive benefit , it will be a quick way of weeding out under age users on ebay.

Grumpy_chap

I can think of other positive benefits.
1. If this allows eBay (and other similar platforms if they adopt similar measures) to better identify business sellers, then that will allow purchasers (consumers) buying from these businesses to avail of full consumer right.
2. The identified businesses can pay proper tax as they should do.
3. It will prevent scammers opening successive accounts and not being linked.

IIRC, when I first signed up to eBay (many years ago) there was something I read about the possibility of transaction volume / value being reported to HMRC for taxation purposes.  I never sold more than a few items over the years so it was never a concern to me.

The potential for business sellers to pass as private when selling via online platforms is quite high - there was a thread recently where someone had an issue and the seller had xxx number of items listed but hid behind being "private".  I can't find the comment, but the idea that a "private" seller would have that many xxx listings did seem implausible.

Brie

I wonder how this will work for people who are reselling things for the purposes of raising money for charity.  Obviously if someone is buying and selling and are looking for a profit (for whatever reason) they will need to keep accounts to satisfy HMRC.  Obviously it could potentially stop those who supposedly have started off by selling a used pencil and kept trading up until they had a sports car or whatever.  

soolin

Brie said:

I wonder how this will work for people who are reselling things for the purposes of raising money for charity.  Obviously if someone is buying and selling and are looking for a profit (for whatever reason) they will need to keep accounts to satisfy HMRC.  Obviously it could potentially stop those who supposedly have started off by selling a used pencil and kept trading up until they had a sports car or whatever.  

Someone raising money for an official charity would be registered as such I suspect. The charity collection rules can be rather complicated, but they are already in place. 

Flugelhorn

soolin said:

Brie said:

I wonder how this will work for people who are reselling things for the purposes of raising money for charity.  Obviously if someone is buying and selling and are looking for a profit (for whatever reason) they will need to keep accounts to satisfy HMRC.  Obviously it could potentially stop those who supposedly have started off by selling a used pencil and kept trading up until they had a sports car or whatever.  

Someone raising money for an official charity would be registered as such I suspect. The charity collection rules can be rather complicated, but they are already in place. 

suppose people may be thinking of those selling just a few things and giving the money to charity - they would be better off giving the stuff to charity and letting them sell it 

I only ever sold when I was  managing a deceased relatives estate and needed to sell coins and stamps etc - presume if accounts were kept then it is clear where the money is going 

martindow

Isn't the issue of raising money for charity a bit of a red herring?  Where a charity sells donated items on line or in their shops, they will have their charitable status established and there will be no problem regarding taxation.

If individuals want to trade to benefit a charity, they can pay their taxes like anyone else and gift aid their donations.  The charity will receive the gross amount and I don't see that there is any need for them to be seen as a special case in need of protection.

If an individual is selling 'to benefit a charity' it often raises an eyebrow that this is a ploy to encourage sales and there is no knowing if the proceeds really are going to the charity.

Hoenir

Grumpy_chap said:

IIRC, when I first signed up to eBay (many years ago) there was something I read about the possibility of transaction volume / value being reported to HMRC for taxation purposes.  I never sold more than a few items over the years so it was never a concern to me.

Ebay do pass data over to the HMRC. Having the NI attached to the account makes cross refencing far easier. HMRC have direct access to a number of databases. Such as DWP, Land Registry, DVLA.  Enables them to commence investigations with a simple have you forgotten to tell us something letter. 

Spoonie_Turtle

martindow said:

If an individual is selling 'to benefit a charity' it often raises an eyebrow that this is a ploy to encourage sales and there is no knowing if the proceeds really are going to the charity.

There is already an option for private sellers to do something linked to charity on eBay, I can't remember whether it's just a portion of the sale price going to a charity or the whole lot.  But it's an option eBay give and it will say on the listing along with a logo of the charity - not just in the description, it appears somewhere that nobody could choose to add it (although I can't remember where that is) - so it's all legit and eBay do it for you.  So there is no issue anyway.

RFW

I'm surprised how easy it is to register to sell on Ebay compared to Amazon. Amazon require various paperwork annually and then verify it thoroughly, it all has to be within 6-12 months, so I end up spending half a day calling HMRC to send me out new paperwork, all of which I should be able to do online bit it invariably doesn't work. Ebay don't do much more than check your address is real.

Hoenir

[Deleted User] said:

RFW said:

I'm surprised how easy it is to register to sell on Ebay compared to Amazon. Amazon require various paperwork annually and then verify it thoroughly, it all has to be within 6-12 months, so I end up spending half a day calling HMRC to send me out new paperwork, all of which I should be able to do online bit it invariably doesn't work. Ebay don't do much more than check your address is real.

in my experience charities mostly want high value nearly new items.

There's plenty of charities that don't. More focussed on recycling than profit. 

GadgetGuru

I’m a private seller and I only sell items that I no longer want/need. Some can be high value. EBay is the only selling platform I have used. Either way, I am not comfortable with this at all. I will start using online forums and other avenues and use eBay as a last resort moving forward.