ebay to request NI numbers from sellers

RFW

NonStopStress said:

RFW said:

I'm surprised how easy it is to register to sell on Ebay compared to Amazon. Amazon require various paperwork annually and then verify it thoroughly, it all has to be within 6-12 months, so I end up spending half a day calling HMRC to send me out new paperwork, all of which I should be able to do online bit it invariably doesn't work. Ebay don't do much more than check your address is real.

I think the difference is ebay was originally for people selling their unwanted used items. Amazon, I believe, is just for businesses.

There are plenty of private sellers on Amazon, probably less these days than there used to be. Although I was referring to the ease of setting up business accounts on both. As I understand there's still more info required for private sellers on Amazon.

NonStopStress said:

I used to sell my unwanted items to buy something new but I doubt I will use again if it's going to class me as a business. £1000 is ridiculous, after fees and postage and packaging that would equate to around £10 per week for items I likely paid 3x that amount for. Ebay will become genuine businesses only, more like Amazon, and people with unwanted items will either give to charity or throw away in landfill because in my experience charities mostly want high value nearly new items. UK Ebay will be gone in 10 years I suspect. Just my opinions but I know nothing 🤣

As far as I know Ebay won't be classing you as a business if you sell over £1000 in a year. This will probably damage Ebay in the short term until the correct information is communicated. I've seen "Ebay will be gone in x years" on here, and elsewhere, over the last decade or two and they're still around. Ebay has become pretty good at evolving and seem to be quite robust these days. 

RFW

NonStopStress said:

I'm not sure anyone can sell on Amazon e.g private sellers, you have to provide your business info, which of course you won't have if not a business. Or that is the way it was couple of years ago. 
As for ebay being around or not, It certainly won't appeal to the average joe selling unwanted items if they require ni numbers and report a measly £1000 a year. It may evolve to business only but would it survive as a business sellers only when amazon offer speedy deliveries. 
Time will tell i guess. 
Either way this will put off genuine private sellers, as it has me. 

Amazon quote from their FAQs:

Do I need to be self employed to sell on Amazon?

Selling on Amazon is open to anyone, regardless of your employment status. Amazon offers two selling plans, one for individuals and another for professional sellers. Once you have decided which plan is best for you, you can start selling on the website.

Keep in mind, if your sales income exceeds a certain limit, you may need to register as a self-employed business and pay taxes accordingly.

Again, there's not been any law change or rule change within Ebay or HMRC. That said Ebay are robust because they started moving their business model away from private sellers quite some time ago.

Spoonie_Turtle

NonStopStress said:

RFW said:

I'm surprised how easy it is to register to sell on Ebay compared to Amazon. Amazon require various paperwork annually and then verify it thoroughly, it all has to be within 6-12 months, so I end up spending half a day calling HMRC to send me out new paperwork, all of which I should be able to do online bit it invariably doesn't work. Ebay don't do much more than check your address is real.

I used to sell my unwanted items to buy something new but I doubt I will use again if it's going to class me as a business. £1000 is ridiculous, after fees and postage and packaging that would equate to around £10 per week for items I likely paid 3x that amount for. Ebay will become genuine businesses only, more like Amazon, and people with unwanted items will either give to charity or throw away in landfill because in my experience charities mostly want high value nearly new items. UK Ebay will be gone in 10 years I suspect. 
Just my opinions but I know nothing 🤣

Are these unwanted items things that you bought specifically to resell?  If not, if they're just your own personal secondhand items (including items you bought intending to use but didn't, they may still be new and unused but they were a personal purchase) then this is all irrelevant to you because you're not trading.

I feel like a broken record but the reporting around this is awful, making people think new rules are coming in western scissor it's just a process designed to make it easier for HMRC to identify people who should be registered and paying tax already under the laws that have existed for years.

subjecttocontract

I scaled back my use of EBay significantly during 2023 because the fees/charges take to much. I now suffer Gumtree (and all the time wasters and noshows) & others. I'll probably stop using EBay completely for selling but I'll still buy thru them.

Grumpelstiltskin

I wonder if all this publicity ill put some people off listing and it would be interesting to see the number of lots listed in January by private sellers compared to an average month last year.

Spoonie_Turtle

NonStopStress said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

NonStopStress said:

RFW said:

I'm surprised how easy it is to register to sell on Ebay compared to Amazon. Amazon require various paperwork annually and then verify it thoroughly, it all has to be within 6-12 months, so I end up spending half a day calling HMRC to send me out new paperwork, all of which I should be able to do online bit it invariably doesn't work. Ebay don't do much more than check your address is real.

I used to sell my unwanted items to buy something new but I doubt I will use again if it's going to class me as a business. £1000 is ridiculous, after fees and postage and packaging that would equate to around £10 per week for items I likely paid 3x that amount for. Ebay will become genuine businesses only, more like Amazon, and people with unwanted items will either give to charity or throw away in landfill because in my experience charities mostly want high value nearly new items. UK Ebay will be gone in 10 years I suspect. 
Just my opinions but I know nothing 🤣

Are these unwanted items things that you bought specifically to resell?  If not, if they're just your own personal secondhand items (including items you bought intending to use but didn't, they may still be new and unused but they were a personal purchase) then this is all irrelevant to you because you're not trading.

I feel like a broken record but the reporting around this is awful, making people think new rules are coming in western scissor it's just a process designed to make it easier for HMRC to identify people who should be registered and paying tax already under the laws that have existed for years.

The point I am trying to make is, if they are now taking peoples NI numbers and reporting any sales above the measly £1000 (around £10 a week after fees postage etc) then you have to prove your selling your unwanted items to HMRC, why on earth would anyone bother the hassle for a tenner a week on items I likely paid £50 for. As I originally said not sold any items for years but I do have lot of stuff I no longer use and when I have the energy was planning to sell to get something new. Unfortunately this will like put me and other normal (non business) sellers off. 
Sorry you feel like a broken record but I'm clearly being misunderstood. 

There's nothing to say they will even contact  people, let alone go after them.  They absolutely don't have the resources to pursue any but the most evidently egregious offenders, let alone people who are doing nothing wrong.

However because of the awful reporting around it, this absolutely will put people off selling because a very large proportion of people do now think they'll be hit with a tax bill for e.g. selling off their children's outgrown clothes (the example I see used most often).

RAS

It's clear from the HMRC briefing that resale of personal goods for less than the purchase price is not "trading", so anyone selling off unwanted goods they have owned for a while or house clearing isn't trading and is not liable for tax.

Someone going round car boot sales or chazzers to find bargains and making a profit from resale is trading and has to declare if they earn more than £1000. 

The former might have to explain their actions to HMRC but how difficult is it to prove that grandpa went into a home last winter and you are disposing of the house contents on their behalf gradually? 

RFW

NonStopStress said:

But Why should you have to prove your selling your unwanted items is what I find ridiculous and will put me off.

No one is going to ask you to do that unless it's substantial figures.
Here's a recent quote from HMRC:
"The reality? There are no changes to tax rules for people who use online marketplaces." Source here.

badmemory

It is fairly easy to see who is a trader & who is selling off stuff.  You only have to look at what they have for sale & also the start prices.  The only people who should be worried are those who are actually trading & they know who they are.  It is those who are trading & trying to deny it just winding others up.  Along with some so called journalists who couldn't write a sensible, truthful article if they tried.

RFW

badmemory said:

It is fairly easy to see who is a trader & who is selling off stuff.  You only have to look at what they have for sale & also the start prices.  The only people who should be worried are those who are actually trading & they know who they are.  It is those who are trading & trying to deny it just winding others up.  Along with some so called journalists who couldn't write a sensible, truthful article if they tried.

True that. The new reporting to HMRC is part of an international agreement we're signed up to to stop global tax evasion. The idea that they're going to be bothered that Joan Soap sold a second hand dog blanket for a fiver is nonsense.