The Perennial PIP Problem of Prognosis

Muttleythefrog

I wonder if over the years those advising others have much experience of challenging purely length of PIP award.

Originally I was awarded it for 4 years then 3 and now 3 again. I await the paper based assessment report but I imagine it is not going to reveal anything of note other than to again support my proposition as to what descriptors apply and conveyed by DWP Decision Maker like last time. I received the decision yesterday which had already been disclosed on phone (despite the text saying they could not reveal anything we could not get the agent to shut up).

They present no facts or reason (other than the progress of time) to explain why they think a review starting potentially in less than 2 years is going to reveal any change or change I wouldn't in any case have reported. Last time I let the 3 year award go but this time I will ask for reconsideration. 

I recently had a Severe Mental Impairment form completed by my new GP (for Council Tax purposes) and will submit it as evidence of permanency of mental disablements by the last person to see me face to face in assessment setting to assess my level of mental illness and dysfunction.

I am of course not expecting them to change decision with a reconsideration but it seems a low risk and low effort request as I agree with all elements of award except length. I will argue that there is no tangible reason to think my condition will improve and the fact they awarded me PIP for 4 years initially and have seen no change since implies they are not using reason or evidence to conclude award length anything lesser.

I would though be reluctant to pursue on to appeal especially given I likely would evade any live attendance and certainly in person. 

Any thought...
Are people having any reasonable successes of challenging lengths of awards?
Are there any significant risks of appeal tribunal given there is agreement on descriptors (DWP/me /assessor) and would be no request to re-look at them. Would a tribunal warn if they were going to reach some decision not to my favour?

etc... any experiences helpful as I try to weigh this up.

(Happy new year! And a special thanks to all those who contribute their advice on these boards. Tragically as we know official or source advice can be poor or plain wrong and the lack of professionalism in the public sector can be trying. I won't digress and detail the official errors faced in my wife's naturalisation application submitted in recent hours but at over £1.5k an application you'd think they'd recognise the difference between the letter n and the word and in a sentence on a binding signed document. The self correction and challenge of advice here is something that can only be seen in positive light.)

born_again

While no idea on the chances of winning. Is it worth the stress & trouble of going through the process?

williewonder

I found with my severe mental illness which is considered life-long and debilitating they were reluctant to give me a long award, I only got 7 years. My friend who I live with has no mental illness but has a learning disability who got given a 10 year - ongoing award. I also am also diagnosed with learning disability so next time my support manager fills in my PIP form we are going to answer with regards to my LD more. I think with mental illness there is always a chance of recovery, new meds or better coping strategies, with a learning disability there is no change at recovery, either with meds.

Muttleythefrog

born_again said:

While no idea on the chances of winning. Is it worth the stress & trouble of going through the process?

The reason I would do it is to reduce stress and trouble... even an award a year longer could make a massive difference including in practical and psychological terms due to impact on blue badge and bus pass which is causing me huge distress as now they're not aligning due to the delays in the review process and 1 year extension that lasted a mere month.

Muttleythefrog

williewonder said:

I found with my severe mental illness which is considered life-long and debilitating they were reluctant to give me a long award, I only got 7 years. My friend who I live with has no mental illness but has a learning disability who got given a 10 year - ongoing award. I also am also diagnosed with learning disability so next time my support manager fills in my PIP form we are going to answer with regards to my LD more. I think with mental illness there is always a chance of recovery, new meds or better coping strategies, with a learning disability there is no change at recovery, either with meds.

7 years is a long award... ! If they gave me that I'd join the seagulls on the roof outside...lol

born_again

Muttleythefrog said:

born_again said:

While no idea on the chances of winning. Is it worth the stress & trouble of going through the process?

The reason I would do it is to reduce stress and trouble... even an award a year longer could make a massive difference including in practical and psychological terms due to impact on blue badge and bus pass which is causing me huge distress as now they're not aligning due to the delays in the review process and 1 year extension that lasted a mere month.

Thanks.
We kind of have the same issue with Mrs (review in process) given she has MS & it will only get worse, that the 1st review was for 3 years, covid meant it's now 5 years.
So will be interesting to see what the review period is this time.
Thankfully her BB was in place before PIP award, as we went direct to local council.

I was thinking in terms of stress now with challenging the award length, rather than in 3 years time with the review again.
I do feel that they could make many cases a lot longer between reviews given the history & condition suffered 👍

Good luck with which ever way you go. 

poppy12345

My daughter has ASD and a learning disability. Her longest award was 6 years, given in 2021. Previous awards were just 2 years. From 2017 up until 2021 she already had 2 reviews, the 2nd review her award was extended due to covid so the review would have happened sooner if it wasn't for that.

She always had maximum award and the reason for the short award was always "due to age her condition could change" of course, ASD and a learning disability does improve over time.... NOT.

I would have preferred a 10 year award but took the 6 rather than challenge the decision.

I'm the same as you and have always had 3 year awards. I've had the same award since 2016 and my conditions haven't changed much at all since that date. I'm also going through yet another review and have asked again this time for a longer award.

If you do challenge the decision you must make sure you tell them that you're happy with the award itself and it's just the length you would like to challenge. The most likely outcome of the MR will be the decision remains the same so you may need to take this to Tribunal.

I have heard of people challenging the award length successfully but needed to take it to Tribunal. Good luck whatever you decide.

HillStreetBlues

I've not read about anyone actually challenging an award length. 
One reason that could deter anyone is that the DWP doesn't have to abide by the length set, as can reassess anytime of their choosing  

Alice_Holt

I have not been involved with a challenge / appeal solely related to the length of the award.

I have, though, when arguing for a higher award, asked a tribunal for a long award when the main health condition is degenerative.  
I have also asked for a longer award when the impact of the assessment (and subsequent appeal) has been clearly detrimental to the client's mental health.
However as HSB says a tribunal can only recommend an award length, it is not binding on the DWP.


I think I might make a case (if the client was insistent) purely for a longer award at MR stage including medical evidence and prognosis, and possibly suggest that a longer award is also appropriate because it is better for the DWP's limited resources (having fully explained the risks to the client). 
But I don't think I'd then take it onto tribunal - principally due to the fact of the non-binding nature of the tribunal's ruling. 
 

Muttleythefrog

Thanks for the advice all.... I think I'll do that... MR and then leave it at that. I will also flag up their resources issue... I mean it took them the best part of a year to agree with me nothing had changed... a total waste. I'll be sure to report the outcome... although chances are we know what it is!

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

Thanks for the advice all.... I think I'll do that... MR and then leave it at that. I will also flag up their resources issue... I mean it took them the best part of a year to agree with me nothing had changed... a total waste. I'll be sure to report the outcome... although chances are we know what it is!

The issue is how bad the experience is for those that have been though it, either as a claimant or advisor.  If it was done correctly first time there wouldn't be so much of a concern when it comes to a reassessment.
I'm "lucky" as I got a 10 year review, but since the award my care needs have increased. My current 9 points now should be at lease 12, but I'm not going to ask for a reassessment because I don't want the award length to be shortened.