The Perennial PIP Problem of Prognosis

nannytone_2

I can see both sides to this argument. 
People see a difference between intellectually compromised people and people suffering from crippling mental health issues.
Eligibility yo benefits is based on the impact these issues have and not the underlying cause.

Muttleythefrog

nannytone_2 said:

I can see both sides to this argument. 
People see a difference between intellectually compromised people and people suffering from crippling mental health issues.
Eligibility yo benefits is based on the impact these issues have and not the underlying cause.

Neither is their argument and they're not talking about eligibility to benefits. They came here to be abusive not engage in intellectual debate of any nature. Their argument is essentially that my GP is a fool in concluding SMI and that it is unacceptable I provide authentic medical evidence to the DWP because they don't like it (they seem unwilling to engage the idea a DWP DM or an assessor they commission can determine for themselves what evidence is relevant or suitable to consider). (They blame me for them raising SMI because I mentioned it..lol... not for a second opinion though!) They've quoted the definition of SMI and contrary to my GP decided I don't meet the criteria for it... based on a couple of posts they read and a post they claim not to have been able to read. Along with their other post it's evidently trolling (the alternative is to believe there really is someone as thick and arrogant as them)... they suggested I just get over the impacts of OCD and forget about them..lol! Their posting is irrelevant and clearly intended to mock mentally ill people which I imagine is why it will ultimately vanish. They're not prepared to engage the facts of the case - that should tell you all you need to know.. they instead prefer to mock the presentation of evidence so they can claim not to have seen it. They've offered nothing more useful than telling a random blind person (typing on the internet!) to just look at things properly and that their optometrist must be using a different definition of visual impairment to what they should.

Eligibility yo benefits is based on the impact these issues have and not the underlying cause - absolutely.
Which is why I'm submitting a SMI form where there is no declaration of the underlying conditions which the other user is not interested in learning about. The DWP correctly identify the applicable descriptors in my case as they did last review... I'm trying to influence a decision for a longer award. It's up to the DWP whether they use the SMI form from my GP - most likely they will not to any effect. I'm not expecting a changed decision.

nannytone_2

To be honest, before I knew better, I would have assumed that severe mental impairment was more to do with intellectual capability than mental health issues,  I presumed M25s opinion was based solely on that point

Muttleythefrog

nannytone_2 said:

To be honest, before I knew better, I would have assumed that severe mental impairment was more to do with intellectual capability than mental health issues,  I presumed M25s opinion was based solely on that point

.... they seem to accept mental illness can lead to SMI manifestation... they've not deviated from the legal definition and the MHA description of SMI and what to expect and I am absolutely happy to agree and use these as gospel. (As soon as I did that they decided my GP might be using a different definition). They say that having read a couple of my posts I do not have SMI.... because I am able to sound eloquent and thoughtful and engage in debate. I.e.... one cannot have SMI if they make a couple of reasonable posts on MSE. (They didn't mention that in the guidance from the council!)  The idea that MSE is not very good place for observing "abnormally aggressive or seriously irresponsible conduct " has completely passed them by. Do they expect me to use capital letters and lots of exclamation marks with threats of violence because they cannot correctly spell their...lol. What would they expect to see in MSE posting from someone with SMI... perhaps they think they couldn't post at all.. who knows.

I've given plenty real examples including from my only PIP face to face assessment to show any idiot looking at what the user quotes pertaining to the MHA could indeed be applicable... real experience... real events... real examples that show my behaviour in a range of social or human engagement circumstances can rapidly lead to irresponsible and abnormally aggressive behaviour. (I have offered to go through the mechanics of mind as to how that happens - but I don't think they're here for education.) The examples are pretty much top of head stuff... could give them all day... and as I think I flagged there's some I simply cannot give for legal reasons. I'm perfectly happy for them to go through my examples and conclude differently... their credibility has no further to decline after all... maybe they live in Royston Vasey where my behaviour is quite normal... I mean I can imagine Tubbs attacking postmen coming to her shop... possibly even burning them... I can imagine Edward jumping out of the window to avoid working with her... and they both have an unhealthy hostility to customers that seems unreasonable. 

Like I say... we take entertainment when we can... and they're good for that... my wife is laughing her head off at the idea the user could be 'Mr Slap' in her favourite youtube video I linked in earlier post. Two slaps to cure depression, three for personality disorders, and probably until your hand goes raw to cure them. Anyway I'm being summoned to my bedroom to be locked in... as you do to a lover who you think will get awoken and act normally.  Peace out.

Spoonie_Turtle

nannytone_2 said:

To be honest, before I knew better, I would have assumed that severe mental impairment was more to do with intellectual capability than mental health issues,  I presumed M25s opinion was based solely on that point

Which is exactly why they had no business questioning someone based purely on posts that they have read on the internet.

If all the professionals involved agree someone meets the definition, but a random stranger disagrees, isn't that a hint that maybe the random stranger needs to reconsider their viewpoint, not act on their ignorant viewpoint to accuse someone of willfully claiming something they're not entitled to AND THEN double down on it.

Ignorance is one thing (I was ignorant here too, I had no idea what scope SMI could cover - and realistically still don't fully know - but because of that I knew I wasn't qualified to have an opinion) whereas the person instigating all of this was arrogant about it, just assuming their understanding was correct and recklessly posting things that could potentially have been very harmful, especially since they knew their target has mental illnesses.

Muttleythefrog

(Removed by Forum Team)

To be honest I think they're just angry I'm soon going to be quite wealthy... I can't imagine they're upset over the circa  £450 saving per year in council tax once I'm free of income related benefits thanks to an SMI declaration by a GP...lol. Jealousy shows its head in many forms and I'm not sure they have the intellect to be arrogant but rather just quite confused and vulnerable.

I didn't have much clue about SMI until I looked into it around a year ago. I'd never considered it relevant before and it would not previously have been of much value to be classified such. I imagined it could apply based on the sort of events and evidence detailed in thread but ultimately I've no idea which way a GP will swing and he was decisive. My previous GP was also decisive in saying I was fit to drive which frankly is shocking and not an option I would exercise to prove otherwise. The SMI form still probably isn't of much value barring the 25% CTax exemption and significantly I used the form as a way to get to see my GP face to face (for first time) and prepare them for the idea in future they may be contacted regarding PIP or a WCA. At the time I requested SMI form completion and sent other documents for scanning to medical records my PIP review began. I had a lot of issues with the GP practice simply getting the form to my GP and it ended up in complaint where bizarrely they came to me to ask me when the form was before in no uncertain terms I explained to them the idea of my complaining was that someone in the organisation might grasp the bull by the horns, track my requests and advance their processing. And in fairness they then did to a chorus of apologies. I have always been a fan of recycling... including information..lol. So really the SMI form was primarily my effort to see my GP to prepare him about benefits and that worked but with significant delay.. I now find myself with the SMI form which has some remote potential to help with benefits... full circle... I just had never imagined it would upset someone so much online to the point they became unable to read and I hope the user is able to recover and move on.

poppy12345

(Removed by Forum Team)
      

There's a deep inconsistency... sadly.

Just as an update I've received copy of the wrong paper based assessment. I've waited...what.. nearly 2 weeks for them to send what has turned out to be the old one from 2020 which I had sent them as my own evidence. It's like an episode of the Chuckle Brothers. 

So hopefully my wife if she is well enough herself tomorrow can get them to actually post out the one for this review. It's frustrating as my MR is ready to go really.. I just need to make sure there's nothing unexpected in the PA3 regarding prognosis.

Just out of curiosity, was your file sent to the health assessment providers? Or was a decision made without being sent to them?  This happened to myself and my daughter back in 2021 so there was no assessment report. The decision was made based on what i sent and the previous assessment report.

The reason i'm asking is because you said they sent you the old one from 2020, which makes me think there was no report.

Muttleythefrog

poppy12345 said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Alice_Holt said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

nannytone_2 said:

To be honest, before I knew better, I would have assumed that severe mental impairment was more to do with intellectual capability than mental health issues,  I presumed M25s opinion was based solely on that point

Ignorance is one thing (I was ignorant here too, I had no idea what scope SMI could cover - and realistically still don't fully know - but because of that I knew I wasn't qualified to have an opinion) whereas the person instigating all of this was arrogant about it, just assuming their understanding was correct and recklessly posting things that could potentially have been very harmful, especially since they knew their target has mental illnesses.

        I am disappointed that MSE Towers appear unable to grasp the importance of this point, and allow malicious posts (despite being reported) and posters to remain. 

       Rather in the same way that it falls upon forumites (not MSE Towers) to point out and correct posts containing inaccurate / misleading benefit advice. 

      In the past, we have seen some posters who are clearly experiencing mental health crises - again it appears to be left to forumites to suggest safeguarding measures, such as contacting the Samaritans / their GP / mental health team.   

      

There's a deep inconsistency... sadly.

Just as an update I've received copy of the wrong paper based assessment. I've waited...what.. nearly 2 weeks for them to send what has turned out to be the old one from 2020 which I had sent them as my own evidence. It's like an episode of the Chuckle Brothers. 

So hopefully my wife if she is well enough herself tomorrow can get them to actually post out the one for this review. It's frustrating as my MR is ready to go really.. I just need to make sure there's nothing unexpected in the PA3 regarding prognosis.

Just out of curiosity, was your file sent to the health assessment providers? Or was a decision made without being sent to them?  This happened to myself and my daughter back in 2021 so there was no assessment report. The decision was made based on what i sent and the previous assessment report.

The reason i'm asking is because you said they sent you the old one from 2020, which makes me think there was no report.

Good question and one I've been asking myself since opening the post and reflecting. So sort of forced to revert to the Decision letter... and it is still unclear.

It's definitely possible what you suggest. I never received the 'we have received the written report from a HCP' text but then I had received one in error as per my previous reassessment when someone has picked up my returned reassessment paperwork and spotted a PIP report supplied be me and flagged it.

The DM says they used the Disability form (of course), HCP report (but old or new?), HCP report for ESA (this was sent in previous reassessment), Extra info I gave, CPN report (This was sent with initial PIP application long ago).

Later in the decision they say 'I looked at the info provided on your AR1 form and supporting evidence sent with it.' This would imply maybe there was no report commissioned.

Unfortunately there are errors in the decision letter which suggest not a lot of attention was being paid... for example they say my disabilities have changed and so my level of award will remain the same (logically this doesn't make sense and would not be true).

So just can't tell... they've used historically provided documents and documents provided this time.

Going to be only one way to find out I guess... thanks for flagging up it is a real possibility they didn't get one as that would have been my inherent next question.

poppy12345

It's looking like there was no assessment report. No text message to say they received the report, more often than not they do send one. It was receiving the last report that flagged it for me.

For my daughters last PIP review i had the decision letter 2 weeks after i sent the form. This indicated to me that they probably hadn't even received the form before the decision was made.

Muttleythefrog

poppy12345 said:

It's looking like there was no assessment report. No text message to say they received the report, more often than not they do send one. It was receiving the last report that flagged it for me.

For my daughters last PIP review i had the decision letter 2 weeks after i sent the form. This indicated to me that they probably hadn't even received the form before the decision was made.

I suspect you are right... I've just checked through my DWP texts. At the previous review where they also falsely flagged receipt of the Consultation report (because I'd sent in the previous one as my evidence) they DID go on to provide the same text when they did get the legitimate consultation report. So the absence of the second text this time is telling.