The Perennial PIP Problem of Prognosis

Bigwheels1111

The person I care for was getting 3 year awards.
Going back 7 years ish, they were saying that long term sick with no chance of getting better should get 10 years.
Got 3 year award again.
Then 3 years later the dreaded brown envelope dropped on the mat, they went into panic mode, without opening it.
Low and behold it was a short sentence stating the they had been reviewed and given 10 years.
Their condition is now 10 times worse, chemotherapy every 3 weeks for 2.5 years.
Exhausted and nausea etc 18 out of 21 day.
Bed ridden 10 / 14 days at a time and wheelchair bound.
Not updated PiP, as receives enhanced daily & motability.
I don’t think they need to know they are worse off.
But not 100% sure.

Spoonie_Turtle

Bigwheels1111 said:

Not updated PiP, as receives enhanced daily & motability.
I don’t think they need to know they are worse off.
But not 100% sure.

Correct, there's no point saying anything to DWP because they can't get any higher award.  It would be at best a waste of time, and at worst a whole ton of unnecessary stress especially if the wrong decision were made.

Alice_Holt

I'm of the opinion that the most important document (particularly for appeals) is the PIP2 claim form.

Tribunal panels can regard flawed assessment reports as having no real evidential value, so will base any decision on the claimants verbal evidence, PIP form, MR, SCCS1, and their tribunal submission.

So, it could be a good idea to include in the PIP form an argument for a long award based on:
i) a degenerative condition;
ii) condition and abilities worsening over time;
iii) the impact of the assessment process is detrimental to the client's mental health.

Whether that extends the DWP's  timeline is debatable, but it might help. 

Muttleythefrog

(Removed by Forum Team)

Oh..lol.. this is me being pragmatic. The award causes me some significant issues that even an extension of a further year would help with (I can ignore issues of blue badge/bus pass for 3 years and easily renew). The MR is easy and low risk so as I see it nothing to lose.... I prepared the MR largely before the decision as I predicted outcome but just didn't know the timing of it. Also a good opportunity to introduce new evidence to them regarding permanent Severe Mental Impairment as it is very recent and from my GP... it may have an effect or may not but it's a chance to test the waters given the possibility of a WCA this year. My re-assessment for all its simplicity lasted the best part of a year.

Paper based review was what I expected given the risks, potential harm and previous reports and I tend to make a strong argument such is not necessary. Assessments make me ill and dangerous... 

I'll probably stop short of an appeal though for several reasons including those given by others and the timeline.

Muttleythefrog

M25 said:

(text removed by Mtf)

Perhaps was worth just deleting everything except the first 5 words of your second sentence. I thought we'd been moving on from a society pondering how someone with depression could tell jokes. 'He can't have committed suicide... he looked fine to me yesterday and was talking about going on holiday'.

You quote the Mental Health Act.... so if I attended a PIP assessment in person (and I was lucky enough to have you as the assessor) you would not be looking for SMI for PIP but what would you be looking for to conclude a SMI in your own mind... would you be expecting to see indications of, or actual, 'abnormally aggressive or seriously irresponsible conduct on the part of the person'?

My GP saw me face to face... and concluded (according to the notes put on what I assume are my visible medical records) 'no doubt that he meets the criteria for SMI, form completed, apologies given for the time taken and problems pt had getting it to my attention'. My GP presumably saw my medical notes...but according to them insisted on a face to face encounter due to my being new to the area (I specifically chose to move to somewhere with near instant access to a GP surgery so hmm 30 seconds door to door). I also have furnished them with most recent assessment reports for file and given a basic layout of my diagnosed conditions and impacts which I thought may be helpful. "The OP is using the GP's signature on the form as a device to get a different outcome for a benefit." - the DWP can, and it is entirely possible will, simply ignore it (they've dismissed a lot of my evidence over the years but strangely end up tending to agree with it following coaxing supermarket trolley like) and it is up to them what evidence they consider. Like I say, and the stats suggest, their decision is most likely to remain the same... it's a low cost (minimal time, second class stamp), low risk, low chance of success option.

"The OP is also very communicative and able to manage arguments on this board." - I've heard that or similar many time on MSE over the years..lol. I'm able to communicate well in many circumstances and I have a past as a lead speaker in public debates, public entertainment, running a pub full of people who should have been in the hospital across the road and in the case of my girlfriend of the time recaptured and returned unceremoniously. If you take a look at what I've done in life, how I present and look at the diagnoses then you'd have one hell of an indulgent adventure of irony and apparent contradiction. I wouldn't even know where to begin with examples... but perhaps one that DWP initially struggled to grasp but now accept... I have a mathematical background, academic, entertainment (street maths to enthuse kids), and work (I worked as a programmer including running things like a popular Newspaper game of its era and later for the NHS BSA reporting one level down from directly to the secretary of state during the swine flu pandemic on telephony stats) yet have great difficulties with numbers because of OCPD and OCD to the point for PIP purposes they consider I need support to take complex budgeting decisions. I do not hide these facts and experiences... I use them to explain mental illness...the reality behind the overly simplistic definitions and superficial expectations. I am not someone who will sit in an assessment saying 'I struggle with making financial decisions and I've always struggled with using numbers' so as to make them think I'm someone who cannot figure out the cost of a lemon from a bought pack. I use them to show I am intellectually impaired despite fundamental competence rather like a professional typist would struggle to type at all if people were throwing drinks at their keyboard and slapping their face. Embarrassingly when I found myself out of work I tried to get a job in a call centre.. it was recruiting big so simply set everyone to do numeracy and literacy tests... I failed the maths test.. in fact I failed to stay in the room (my failure to stay in the room was not due to difficulty with the test but difficulty with the room itself)... this was long before claiming benefits... this was long before I ever approached in mid life the medical profession regarding long seated and developing MI.

I am someone with far more experience of hiding and concealing mental illness than disclosing and explaining it... when you've worked somewhere for 6 years among the largely same people and never been seen eating anything including lunch have you any idea how intense the daily experience is to passing yourself off as normal and without an issue relating to eating... and how do you do it when people start asking if you've got cancer because you're so thin and gaunt.... how do you explain the avoidance of the lifts (high risk environment where I will get OCD related images, sounds, thoughts and 'accidentally touch people' as my senses fail to establish reality) when you're between floors scores of times a day. Well I suppose there's a lot of 'too busy and got nice meal planned tonight' and 'keeping fit' must've been overused I'll bet. I am very tired from it all... a life of deception.   

One thing that has littered my life is that I've shown incredible ability to adapt and succeed in any environment thrown at me... even facing extreme hostility like when my own security guard was paid to terminate me abroad at our bar and twice tried. As discussed before on MSE several times in past I faced over a relatively short period of my life a significant number of police interrogations over terror activities related to my campaigning background... I was never troubled by these and saw it as part of the war of the time where I was routing out infiltrating Met officers and planting new officers into the service (some of whom today are successfully still gainfully employed - missed my true vocation eh!). But what is not so obvious unless you look closer... I've left a terrible trail of human deception and suffering... traumatised colleagues... an obsession with revenge... and things I will never disclose. My only friend I retain from previous working environments lost his department at a law firm and never worked again because I had manipulated the boss into shutting us down as surplus to requirements - why... because I had become too physically and mentally unwell to continue working so like usual I found a way out and didn't care who I took down with me.. anything but admit the truth and sit with a devastating last reference for the next job when I was able to recover enough to once again put on the well constructed facade.

My next job.. bizarrely a senior role at the NHS BSA I was interviewed immediately after my referee.. my friend and former colleague who effectively admitted in his own effort to get the job it was me they were looking for...lol. (Oh I tried to leave that job by the 4th floor window.. I rely on others for the facts of the matter). I targeted a HCP who did a past assessment until their life fell apart and detailed that in past on here (it attracted quite a bit of condemnation at the time.. from people interestingly who  seemed suspicious as to whether I was mentally ill or disabled at all given my ability to post and argue on a site that then I engaged mainly for debate when it had the section to do so) ... the irony is their report was very helpful. I've lived a life on the line at the extremes of experience while trying to present as normal. It is so incredibly draining that in the unexpected event a decade ago of having a love interest enter my life (who I met in a game online) and move to the UK to marry and live with me I've found domestic life supremely challenging... I have Schizoid PD so I present as socially available and engaged while actually wanting solitude and privacy and emotional distance or absence.. and I have OCD in extreme presentation where every object and surface presents issues and having a cat and partner interfering 24x7 for best part of a decade with those objects, surfaces, spaces etc has been and will be the ultimate challenge of my lifetime... and I have made it clear to my partner... the price of love for us both has been far more than immigration fees but a moment to moment survival for a smile. It's beautiful and tragic... and that's the story of my life... but as I get older and have more time to reflect I see where the development of a lot of my problems began and my own wife, forced to temporarily live with my parents between home moves, became acutely mentally unwell in their environment (to the point I had to supervise her during nights to prevent harm to my parents) and rightly expressed an appreciation for why I am who I am.

But for your educational purposes.. since education is something I value (and I do it elsewhere for 'leisure' on many subjects including this one) especially if it means there's a chance one less mentally ill person goes to their grave due to the ignorance they faced in life... an answer to paragraph 2 please? And if you want to embellish your answer.. what might you be expecting to hear about my day to day life... for example if receiving visitors or phone calls. This is your chance to understand your own referencing to the MHA and definition (for council tax purposes) of SMI in the face of someone assessed to have it that doesn't seem to be fitting with your understanding of it. So let us get some facts into play and better understanding. Your choice... learn or sit in ignorance as many prefer rather than challenging their own mind and understanding for fear they can't cope with being wrong. 

I'll leave you with a thought and some bedtime stories... if you think you understand a mentally ill person you probably don't. It's a lesson I've had to learn myself... I've been the last person a couple of people spoke to before walking away to commit suicide... I failed to understand them sufficiently to prevent it and I had no idea it was even in their mind... it's a bitter blow when you like to assert an ability to emotionally understand people and their motivations but in my defence these were strangers and the setting was not where I would have been anticipating. My then local pub nicknamed me the grim reaper and murderer.. the first name because these were not the only two cases where people left the pub having engaged almost exclusively with me and then been dead within half an hour...(another case was a regular asked me to sing 10CC's I'm not in love.. which I did acapella.. brought tears to his eyes reminding him of his recently lost wife.. and free ale to my hand.. he would die during that night from diagnosed cancer)...   the second name came from known habits of gardening or spending time in local parks during the night.. places I found full of life, impressive aromas and my own heightened energies due to the lack of human interference. As an old acquaintance remarked recently 'how do you cope now you don't have a garden'... my response "other people's dahlias are doing very well here".

Many years ago now I think it was BBC2 that conducted a several episode experiment. They basically took some very experienced psychiatrists... they took a range of members of the public.. among those members of the public were people with severe long standing diagnosed mental illnesses and the rest were Joe Publics with no such background. The Psychiatrists were able to watch the participants as over time tasks they decided were set up so they could start to figure out who was mentally ill and with what. So in my memory they got one task to muck out a farmyard barn (something you might expect someone with OCD to struggle with) and in another task perform in front of a pub on stage and I think it was comedy or the like (something someone with say agoraphobia and social interaction related issues including possibly depression could struggle with). The conclusion... the experts were given at the end the experiment following their observations through all of the set tasks the task to decide who was mentally ill and what with (albeit in circumstances different than they would normally do this)... they basically seemed to get it mostly wrong.. some apparently healthy people diagnosed with serious MH problems and wrong diagnoses given too. It basically showed (to me at least) that if you are going to use superficial or stereotypical observation of people to diagnose or understand MI then you are on a hiding to idiocy. What was evident is that some MI sufferers performed well where they were expected to struggle or completely fail... they had lived with illness for a long time.. they had clearly learned to understand how their illness affected them and (possibly with the help of therapists etc) counter how it manifested for a world of ignorance, judgement, prejudice and discrimination. It's certainly not an alien concept to me.

(post too long, paragraphing lacking - yes had those complaints over the years on here and elsewhere... can't switch off the OCD for other people's benefit any more than someone will grow legs to satisfy an egg and spoon race organiser.. pay me plenty and I'll come fix it all)

Muttleythefrog

(Removed by Forum Team)

True. Although personally I'd like to challenge them (I've taken a precaution in case admin wish to remove their content)... they're standing behind the Mental Health Act definition so I'm hoping they as minimum have the grace to reiterate it as their understanding of SMI... if they do so then I can easily give facts of my case that I've given before on MSE (PIP face to face assessment and a later WCA) to show that information my GP likely did not see (but should have scanned to file now) significantly indicates I meet the definition and that my day to day reality has a wealth of experience of exactly what one might expect to see if purely relying on the MHA definition. I would then hope it serves as a reminder to them to try not to be clever but instead to open their mind, do some fact finding and evade their prejudices before trying to make assertions about people they fundamentally are very badly placed to deliver. My GP very quickly concluded that I easily met the criteria for SMI and this will have been I imagine based on the dysfunction he was seeing and erratic thoughts, inabilities to focus and physical symptoms that could not be concealed, the sorts of things not so evident in a piece of text widely edited but that do evidence severely impaired intelligence and social functioning.

And just to confirm in no way do I feel attacked or negative regarding their posting (long life in adversarial circumstances) suffice for that it may  impact someone else or others negatively... they've demonstrated they would never have the intellectual capacity to reach that threshold of a pixelated annoyance... seen it all before... seen it all before on MSE.... including from people with clear malicious intent rather than mindless observations. The value of a Schizoid personality... people will struggle to engage your emotions.. something I know frustrated many an interviewer over terror related offences and shocked my former business partner who assumed I'd die from gunshot wounds or flee rather than clear up the mess and start serving cheap Spanish bottled beer. The Eloquent and Thoughtful description though was somewhat reassuring though... not the sort of thing I'm used to hearing but it could be the start of something beautiful. They should have heeded the warning when their  understanding of what was pragmatic in their mind, given my proposed thread dilemma, was completely wide of the reality of my concept of pragmatic given issues they almost certainly were not considering alongside mental illness.. they also decided to proceed despite another warning when I stated "Assessments make me ill and dangerous... "... that should have been in their mind when they went on to quote from the MHA but presumably it was not or they chose to filter to protect their beliefs. As my old departmental boss said a few times... we can try to stop the fools (lawyers we worked with) sending semi literate letters to their clients but we ain't the Royal Mail.

(If they don't meaningfully respond and thread (which served its purpose) remains I'll be assuming their previous post stands as their understanding and I will give facts of the case which highlight the user is likely wrong and my GP likely right - this is probably something they could have established for themselves with some research on MSE but I know a massive chunk of my posts vanish into the ether..lol. Regretfully I will not be able to furnish them with full facts of my case as I while life presents a troubled moment to moment existence I do prefer to serve it on my own terms..lol)

Muttleythefrog

HillStreetBlues said:

M25 said:

I think you should be pragmatic and accept how things are. 

Imagine if they didn't do a paper-based award? How would that make you feel?

Try and move on with your life.

I'm guessing you don't know how condescending that post is
What next? slapping round the head, while yelling "pull yourself together"

lol... it was on a par with an experience I had getting in touch with a very old friend I basically spent my childhood with. Perhaps 20 years since we'd spoke... we exchanged pleasantries and I said I'd had an interesting life and significant mental illness unfortunately so was no longer working... he replied 'you're just a bit different that's all'. He obviously was trying to be reassuring but it fell completely flat.

The idea someone, who lives with a daily battle of rumination and OCD to the point they're still thinking about the last 3 year PIP award and physically harming themselves as punishment for not having done an MR at that time, might be well advised to just move on with their life is about as intellectually defective as asking Jimmy Savile to look after your kids for the day because you've heard he only sexually assaults corpses in the hospital and likes playing Duran Duran.

A complete bankruptcy of ability to understand mental illness in any way... or a deliberate attempt to target the mentally ill.

As I once or twice have said on the graveyard shift... entertainment takes many forms.
I imagine this is what the user would suggest for agoraphobia youtu.be/ZiwahzAJe0Y

peteuk

If given a lower award, then dont forget even though you have a long term illness/disease on review you may be reassessed as a higher award. 

Obviously it goes with common sense that if awarded higher for both care and mobility, with a disease that is lifelong/degenerative etc then the period of the claim is pretty useless.  Equally I would hope that at the point of reassessment it is a paper review rather than sending out the questionnaire.  But this is the DWP and nothing runs on common sense. 

I would also say as a HCP who did PIP assessments, I learnt a lot about diseases and illnesses in the first few months.  Some of which I had never heard of.  As a nurse I worked secondary care, orthopaedics and so something like narcolepsy wasn’t something I new much about.   Equally mental health is such so difficult to assess. So please don't expect your assessor to be an expert, as PIP assessments are targeted to HCP. 

Muttleythefrog

peteuk said:

If given a lower award, then dont forget even though you have a long term illness/disease on review you may be reassessed as a higher award. 

Obviously it goes with common sense that if awarded higher for both care and mobility, with a disease that is lifelong/degenerative etc then the period of the claim is pretty useless.  Equally I would hope that at the point of reassessment it is a paper review rather than sending out the questionnaire.  But this is the DWP and nothing runs on common sense. 

I would also say as a HCP who did PIP assessments, I learnt a lot about diseases and illnesses in the first few months.  Some of which I had never heard of.  As a nurse I worked secondary care, orthopaedics and so something like narcolepsy wasn’t something I new much about.   Equally mental health is such so difficult to assess. So please don't expect your assessor to be an expert, as PIP assessments are targeted to HCP. 

Just being furnished with the HCP's report would be useful..lol... not sure why it hasn't arrived yet. Then I can lodge an MR with full facts in front of me although that report is essentially just going to reiterate the same descriptors as per last review and my agreement. It's the prognosis and how they justify what I believe will be a 2 year review date that I'll have to accommodate in reconsideration. I suspect it will be very vague (again) about potential for change over time.

Yes would be wonderful if a paper based review didn't require lengthy questionnaire completing but I suppose it plays a role in them determining to do such. 

Hopefully I get a bit more common sense on the review period but I'm not expecting them to change decision. I certainly don't expect them to change any awarded descriptors as all parties agree on them.. again.

On your last paragraph... yes from anecdotal evidence, my observations... I imagine many doing PIP assessments are encountering claimants with defect unfamiliar. I've long been critical of all of the failings of WCA and PIP assessments and reports but my last face to face assessment done for WCA was with a nurse I'm happy to applaud as having demonstrated (unexpectedly and beyond requirements) a very good understanding of my illnesses and disabilities. 

Muttleythefrog

M25 said:

(text removed by Mtf)

Ah here we go 
'I cannot cope with your posts' - as I pointed out... my posts tend to reflect underlying illness I have. I thought that was what you were focused on doing.. looking at my posts and figuring out my capacities. Not that keen now? If you expect me to turn illness off for your benefit then no can do. I knew you'd take the lazy route of evading evidence, facts, information, explanations etc when it suited your prejudices. 

'Your massive responses and ability to argue your corner clearly prove this' - no they do not. You misunderstand Severe Mental Impairment and the concept of severely impaired intelligence. You think someone who has that is unable to demonstrate what you consider intelligence. I will come back to dealing with this in my post when we look at the facts of my case which you are oblivious to.

'I'm amazed other people are complaining at me challenging the use of the SMI paperwork too.' - why? The processes of claim for PIP allow you to submit evidence of your choosing (and that provided by medical professionals if relevant can be the most important) and it is up to the DWP DMs (and their contracted HCPs if relevant) whether they consider it useful or relevant. The DWP DMs state what evidence they use for their decision and in my case they use some very historic psychiatric type assessments, CPN reports, assessment reports for PIP and ESA which I tend to re-supply, my submitted information and their own commissioned HCP's report. Are you suggesting they are incapable of taking the document and deciding for themselves whether it has any value when they ordinarily do this for all evidence? My use of the document will be to try to impress a degree of permanency of my disablements which have not changed in all my time of claiming PIP so I think a longer award reasonable a request. (They have awarded PIP for longer before so this is not a remarkable request especially given there has been no change according to them and me). Chances are they will simply give the same decision as happens for most MRs. My SMI form was completely for original purposes - to exclude me from council tax consideration as soon we expect to face more of it when I become wealthy due to inheritance (I expect to go from £4k in bank to around £500k once all the complex estate is dealt with overseas) and lose income related benefits.

'As I clearly said, I'm not suggesting for a minute the OP isn't diabled ill. That's got nothing to do with my point.' - it does... because you are asserting some grand understanding of those disablements without any apparent evidence beyond a few posts in a thread on some VDU. It's not possible to understand if SMI is applicable to me without understanding how I am disabled and what that looks like. You'll get some information here (if you bother to read it) and I'll below try my best to give some examples of what is surely relevant information you could not get unless I disclose it to you. You have to understand the mechanics of how my illnesses play out particularly in social situations or when engaging other people or their actions (perceived or real)... only then will I make much sense. 'But he can argue in a text based discussion board' is not going to get you far in understanding the mind and behaviours of someone with a range of MIs diagnosed and that developed probably from childhood.

'SMI isn't for every person who is disabled.' - I think rephrasing this might be better but yes of course not. Most disabled people will surely not meet a classification of SMI.

'It was the OP who used the term SMI.' - yes but not because I was wondering if I had it and was looking for a keyboard psychiatrist. I referenced it as a piece of evidence I would supply to a MR for PIP. You obviously got quite upset by that which is frankly odd to me... but then strange behaviours is what we're here to discuss huh. Ultimately it is irrelevant what you think about PIP, my GP, SMI or me in regards to that submission. The DWP will accept the document as authentic and likely not consider it relevant or meaningful to making a new decision.  It's essentially a free shot from my perspective to make the MR request and throw the document in while it is 'recent'.

'If councils or other bodies (or your GP) have there own version of SMI then that's fine but I was quoting the law for England.' - great... I have no issue with you quoting the law for England as it is applicable and I have no issue with you quoting the MHA in relation to defining SMI... that's fine and dandy. I am therefore to assume you stand behind both to conclude I do not have SMI and we can move forward and work with that. 
---------------------------------------
THE IMPORTANT PART 

And so here we go... you didn't answer the very simple question I posed as you could not deal with reading my post (yet you had no issue reading short posts to reach clinical judgements). So let's try to be constructive and given what you've said we can move forward and say you think a person with SMI should meet with the legal definition... agree... you refer people to the MHA referencing of SMI which I am forced to assume you therefore agree with (and I would have no issue with that) and it says in relation to SMI "associated with abnormally aggressive or seriously irresponsible conduct on the part of the person concerned"

I asked you if you were assessing me face to face what would you be expecting to see as indicators or evidence of SMI. This seems a very reasonable question since it would give you the option of telling me what you would look for to conclude SMI. I have to assume you would look for 'abnormally aggressive or seriously irresponsible conduct'. I asked if you could embellish your answer by describing what you may expect to find out about someone's day to day life if they had SMI. With no answer I'm going to give real examples that I think a credible person answering the question would give that are in line with  'abnormally aggressive or seriously irresponsible conduct'. 

1. So would it surprise you that at my only ever PIP face to face assessment I started shouting that I would kill the assessor and tried to fight my wife off as a lunged across the separating desks to get to the assessor's throat? I would detail the mechanics of my MI that explain how this comes about and am happy to do so on request. Does that sound abnormally aggressive and seriously irresponsible to you or would you consider it quite regular behaviour? My wife was injured, panic alarm set off, multiple staff members pinned me to the ground and I had a panic attack.

2. Last WCA face to face assessment. Mindful of my history and being furnished with the HCP report regarding 1. precautions were taken for safety. The assessor (a damned good one!) curtailed the assessment after he detected my OCD related thoughts were causing concern for wellbeing and safety... what followed I had little recollection of.. so let me quote the assessor minus spelling/grammar errors "Having concluded LCWRA, unable to complete two sequential actions, the assessment was curtailed with Mr [X] showing escalating concerning thoughts and gestures and content. I noted his wife also looked concerned and had grasped Mr [X]'s wrists. This assessment was audio recorded at the request of Mr [X] and I terminated the recording. I requested for support as I saw his condition deteriorate, notably he went very pale and began complaining about lack of sensation in his face, he began to retch without vomit and started accusing people of trying to kill him. His personality shifted erratically and he seemed to start referring to previous assessment while choking the air in front of him. At times there were switches between apparent distress and pleasure while punching the furniture. This was repeatedly interrupted by retching and attempts by his wife to calm him as she used significant force to restrain him." - to cut a long story shorter further colleagues joined the assessor and they physically removed me from the room to a safer quite space to try to recover along with water and easy access to taxi. No face to face assessment has been conducted since for PIP or ESA and the justification is the high risk of distress or similar and lack of requirement.

3. Branching out a bit to daily life. I spend most of the day locked in a bedroom. My wife locks it and if I need to come out I call her. Why...? Because when we get visitors or unexpected phone calls I become aggressive... I will always react to people I see interfering with my order as I perceive it as a hostile and direct act... I behave as it it is deliberate on their part.  Does that sound abnormally aggressive and seriously irresponsible to you or would you consider it quite regular behaviour to attack a postman delivering a letter? 

4. Previous employment. Last job... I tried to leave via a 4th floor window to the roundabout outside... I have to rely on the testimony of others for what happened but apparently I fought with the wealth of framed pictures etc that were obstructing my path (the offices had been redecorated so pictures were laying around the walls) and that I'd failed to escape only because some fool had painted the windows shut. Is this seriously irresponsible conduct or normal activities in an office environment?

5. Previous employment. I ran a pub. A member of my staff complained a customer had touched her inappropriately. I asked him over and to come behind the bar before opening the cellar door and kicking him down the steps. When he showed signs of life that were embarrassing to hear I took a stun gun and explained he needed to go in the chest freezer. Once in the chest freezer he offered me money to stop... I took his wallet and let him out of the freezer before locking him the cellar for the weekend. Not sure how normal you think this behaviour is... abnormally aggressive...perhaps.. seriously irresponsible.. surely.

6. A previous benefit assessor I targeted because I disagreed with her on a point of fact. Although the report actually ended up gaining me the benefit and at appropriate level I could not contain OCD related thoughts until I had carried out a destruction of her life. She was targeted using techniques I won't reveal but she lost her home, husband, job and if I recall correctly there were some indications from social media she may have attempted to take her life. This story is not uncommon in my life... unfortunately I cannot reveal details of those which any sane person would not

7. Back to daily life... I recently moved. One of the reasons I needed to move is that I had excessive preoccupation with the neighbours.. I was increasingly of the belief they were watching me and deliberately trying to harm me by changing the number of objects around the street and my garden. When one neighbour put a new house number at the end of his drive wall which pointed straight at my living room window and was an odd number... I had to respond.. and I did by removing the number plate and setting fire to everything wooden in his back garden. When he repeated the offending action I targeted his employer until they understood he was a maniac who did anti social things... he lost his job. Another neighbour changed their wireless Router name to a set of odd numbers.. it seemed mathematically improbable to my mind that this was anything other than an attempt to drive me out of my home... so I drove her out of her home using a method again I would prefer not to detail but that will almost always succeed. Let me say this... I intimidated her to the point she would never be able to sleep at home. If any of this is sounding quite far remote from a concept of abnormally aggressive or seriously irresponsible conduct then do tip me off!

I could go on for hours detailing real facts.. real evidence... from my life recent and otherwise... that any reasonable person I would expect to conclude given your (perfectly valid and agreed) assertion of what SMI is and looks like are quite consistent with.

So what about you... do you need further examples.... or do you think the examples are not abnormally aggressive or seriously irresponsible conduct and people need to get out more and see what normal life looks like?

My GP saw me face to face and had no difficulty concluding SMI. That fact combined with your confusion as to how that could be should default to you perhaps querying if you have a misunderstanding or lack of facts in front of you. I have tried to provide facts. I'll finalise with understanding. There is no doubt I am of intelligence (although I would hotly dispute the idea that most people understand what that is)... but the SMI doesn't ask if someone shows signs of intelligent engagement. It doesn't look for a permanent observable state. For mental illness which cannot be measured in terms of brain development (at least not yet!).. will not likely be marked for example by a genetic developmental disorder.. one has to look at severe impairment of intelligence and social functioning and for that end the MHA gives a suitable way to observe for indicators of applying the definition. I have provided you material to do that. It's up to you whether you choose to continue this charade or simply conclude your unwanted and unhelpful interaction in this thread can be concluded of likely error. SMI is not a thing.. it's a description of particular expectation (like mental illnesses themselves a cluster of suffered symptoms or properties) and could have a range of types of underlying cause. SMI is possible to legally conclude through mental illness if it results in what is described in the definitions you use and what the MHA states as expectation for observation. You have made no such contradicting observations.. this isn't a suitable environment for it and that's damned obvious from what the MHA states... it's neither a social environment or an environment where aggression or unreasonable behaviours can be properly assessed. 

If you still persist in maintaining your baseless allegation then it will only continue to discredit you and raise suspicion of motivations especially when interventions have included ridiculously unhelpful advice to a sufferer of OCPD and OCD that assumes they can simply cast aside their symptoms to act like you think they should. 

Make a change today... self improvement! (oh and if you return to say 'I can't read all that' then it outs you as a fraud who is in no way interested in learning about the subject you decided to attack and judge.) Unlike what I suspect are several posters I prefer your posts remain.... for wider educational purposes about the ignorance of mental illness if nothing else. I'm perfectly happy to play the apparent victim as I'll never feel that in your presence. I will be extracting your comments to other locations as educational material although I do wonder if in some they will think I made you up! I can imagine the response to 'there was a member of the public who suggested someone with aggressive and obsessive thoughts relating to a matter just be pragmatic and move on with life' doesn't sound very authentic even for the modern day village jester.