Bristol Airport NTK - 104) Stopping to Pick-Up/Drop Off In a Restricted Zone

Umkomaas

ParkingMad said:

Byelaws are not currently in use as the last set of byelaws published relate to the old airport site and are now regarded as obsolete by the Airport Company.

Are they allowed to do this?

Standard BS fob-off by VCS. They have used the same guff for Liverpool John Lennon in the past. Thing is, it's not whether the Airport Company regard the byelaws as obsolete, it's whether the Secretary of State for Transport does!

The OP should question what byelaws are in place (and for a copy), because surely there must be, as such byelaws cover issues far more essential than car parking arrangements like 'Tampering with Aircraft', 'Entering Aircraft without Authority', 'Security of Aircraft', 'Interference with communication and navigation systems' .......  These are the 2012 Byelaws, are all these now 'obsolete'?  

https://www.bristolairport.co.uk/media/4vqbdkcf/bristol-airport-byelaws-11062018.pdf

Lots on which to press the airport.

Fruitcake

ParkingMad said:

Byelaws are not currently in use as the last set of byelaws published relate to the old airport site and are now regarded as obsolete by the Airport Company.

Are they allowed to do this?

I helped another poster who had the same lies spouted to them by VCS at Brizzle Airport. My MP contacted the sub-contractor (Bristol Airport Ltd) that manages the site on behalf of the foreign owners. I can't remember the exact words used by BA Ltd, but it was something to the effect that a VCS operative had misinterpreted wording, and steps had been put in place to ensure it didn't happen again.

It is obvious that VCS have not changed their ways and VCS are still spouting untruths.

I'll dig out the correspondence from my MP and post it here, although it's still on Boudouche1's thread somewhere. 

@RRTechie, I'll post the complaint letter I sent to my MP, and the response he got from BA Ltd. I'll also send you a private message with the name of the person at Excel who responded to BA Ltd.

Once you have them, you must complain to your MP and Bristol Airport Ltd, including the information that VCS are telling porkies again, and include the comments by my MP and BA Ltd's response. 

You could try sending a private message to @Boudouche1 to see if they are able to and willing to supply you with their correspondence with BA Ltd.

As a side issue, you should complain to VCS and the landowner and BA Ltd and your MP and the DVLA that a data breach has occurred since Excel are a completely separate accounting company to VCS, with different company numbers registered at Companies House. VCS therefore had no right to pass your personal data to a third party, and that third party, Excel Parking Services, had no right to obtain and process your personal data.

You MUST do all of these complaints and kick up a stink. It worked for the other poster and their PCN was quietly dropped. You should also complain to local and national press/media about the lies being spouted at a time when parking and drop-off charges at the airport have been significantly increased. The cynic in me believes this is purely to encourage motorists to stop on the airport roads instead of paying extortionate amounts to "kiss and say 'bye."

PS

Do/did you work at the Lazy R? I was a Patchway inmate for 43 years before retiring.

Fruitcake

This is what I put in my complaint to my MP.

"Dear John Penrose,

Bristol Airport is owned by a number of foreign investment companies and managed on their behalf by a sub-contractor called Bristol Airport Limited. It is a legal requirement that airport byelaws must be in place in order for aircraft flights to occur.
I have recently discovered that according to Vehicle Control Services (VCS) Limited, a sub-contractor of the airport management company, Bristol airport Limited consider airport byelaws to be obsolete in certain parts of the airport site.

Background:
A vehicle registered keeper received an unfair parking charge notice from VCS for stopping in a no-stopping area on North Side Road within the airport boundary. The driver of this vehicle, who was not the registered keeper, was forced to stop in a queue of traffic on the 30th of June, 2023, due to a broken down bus, which was therefore completely outside the control of the driver.

This is not the issue however. During the appeal process, the registered keeper pointed out that they could not be held liable because the land is not-relevant land where airport byelaws apply as defined by Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, and only the unidentified driver could be liable.
VCS responded with, amongst other points,

"Byelaws are not currently in use as the last set of byelaws published relate to the old airport site and are now regarded as obsolete by the Airport Company."

It should be noted that the alleged event occurred on North Side Road, which is the main road through the airport to all car parks, close to the main terminal building and therefore not on "the old airport site." In addition, the most recent airport byelaws cover the location of the alleged event, and were produced as recently as 2012.

As a regular user of Bristol Airport, and a concerned member of your constituency who lives under the airport flightpath, please will you confirm with Bristol Airport Limited that either,

(i) Airport Byelaws are not considered obsolete and therefore their agent, Vehicle Control Services Limited have made an untrue statement,

or,

(ii) Airport Byelaws are considered obsolete, Airport regulatory bodies and the Civil Aviation Authority have been informed, and all concerned are satisfied that airport operational safety and the safety of the general public has not been compromised."

 

This is the response to my MP, the RH John Penrose, from Bristol Airport Ltd when I complained about this.

"Firstly, our Byelaws are definitely in place and are not obsolete. We have of course contacted our third-party parking enforcement provider who have identified an issue with the wording used in the response to the constituent, which does not align with their usual communication standards. The operative used incorrect phrasing with regards to Byelaws in this particular response. Excel Parking Services have assured us that this wording anomaly is not consistent with the response typically used in other communications"


You can use my complaint letter to my MP virtually as it is in your complaint to your MP. You only need to change the part about the driver stopping in a queue to stopping at traffic lights, and of course my comments about where I live and being in Mr P's constituency if different.

troublemaker22

That response doesn’t go far enough. Where is the acknowledgment of the inevitable consequence of the byelaws being in force - that VCS cannot transfer liability to keepers and that claiming that they can is fraud 

RRTechie

Fruitcake said:

This is what I put in my complaint to my MP.

"Dear John Penrose,

Bristol Airport is owned by a number of foreign investment companies and managed on their behalf by a sub-contractor called Bristol Airport Limited. It is a legal requirement that airport byelaws must be in place in order for aircraft flights to occur.
I have recently discovered that according to Vehicle Control Services (VCS) Limited, a sub-contractor of the airport management company, Bristol airport Limited consider airport byelaws to be obsolete in certain parts of the airport site.

Background:
A vehicle registered keeper received an unfair parking charge notice from VCS for stopping in a no-stopping area on North Side Road within the airport boundary. The driver of this vehicle, who was not the registered keeper, was forced to stop in a queue of traffic on the 30th of June, 2023, due to a broken down bus, which was therefore completely outside the control of the driver.

This is not the issue however. During the appeal process, the registered keeper pointed out that they could not be held liable because the land is not-relevant land where airport byelaws apply as defined by Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, and only the unidentified driver could be liable.
VCS responded with, amongst other points,

"Byelaws are not currently in use as the last set of byelaws published relate to the old airport site and are now regarded as obsolete by the Airport Company."

It should be noted that the alleged event occurred on North Side Road, which is the main road through the airport to all car parks, close to the main terminal building and therefore not on "the old airport site." In addition, the most recent airport byelaws cover the location of the alleged event, and were produced as recently as 2012.

As a regular user of Bristol Airport, and a concerned member of your constituency who lives under the airport flightpath, please will you confirm with Bristol Airport Limited that either,

(i) Airport Byelaws are not considered obsolete and therefore their agent, Vehicle Control Services Limited have made an untrue statement,

or,

(ii) Airport Byelaws are considered obsolete, Airport regulatory bodies and the Civil Aviation Authority have been informed, and all concerned are satisfied that airport operational safety and the safety of the general public has not been compromised."

 

This is the response to my MP, the RH John Penrose, from Bristol Airport Ltd when I complained about this.

"Firstly, our Byelaws are definitely in place and are not obsolete. We have of course contacted our third-party parking enforcement provider who have identified an issue with the wording used in the response to the constituent, which does not align with their usual communication standards. The operative used incorrect phrasing with regards to Byelaws in this particular response. Excel Parking Services have assured us that this wording anomaly is not consistent with the response typically used in other communications"


You can use my complaint letter to my MP virtually as it is in your complaint to your MP. You only need to change the part about the driver stopping in a queue to stopping at traffic lights, and of course my comments about where I live and being in Mr P's constituency if different.

Thank you very much, very helpful indeed! I have made notes of these correspondences and will be making the complaints and will reply back when made.

I will reply separately to your PM.

RRTechie

Update 07/01/2024:

I have now made the following additional complaints regarding the response I received from Excel Parking Services Ltd...

- Charge Notice and GDPR Complaint Sent to IPC.
- GDPR Complaint Sent to Bristol Airport.
- GDPR Complaint Sent to VCS.
- Charge Notice and GDPR Complaint Sent to local MP.

1505grandad

Perhaps also to the DVLA?  -  or will that be included in complaint to MP.

ParkingMad

The contract between VCS and Bristol Airport Ltd, who are not the landowner, (including the site map showing which roads are covered by the contract) was posted by @ginger_bread_man in their thread in 2020. The document is called Bristol Airport terms.pdf

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6122387/vehicle-control-services-no-stopping-in-a-queue/p5

Boudouche1

Fruitcake said:

ParkingMad said:

Byelaws are not currently in use as the last set of byelaws published relate to the old airport site and are now regarded as obsolete by the Airport Company.

Are they allowed to do this?

I helped another poster who had the same lies spouted to them by VCS at Brizzle Airport. My MP contacted the sub-contractor (Bristol Airport Ltd) that manages the site on behalf of the foreign owners. I can't remember the exact words used by BA Ltd, but it was something to the effect that a VCS operative had misinterpreted wording, and steps had been put in place to ensure it didn't happen again.

It is obvious that VCS have not changed their ways and VCS are still spouting untruths.

I'll dig out the correspondence from my MP and post it here, although it's still on Boudouche1's thread somewhere. 

@RRTechie, I'll post the complaint letter I sent to my MP, and the response he got from BA Ltd. I'll also send you a private message with the name of the person at Excel who responded to BA Ltd.

Once you have them, you must complain to your MP and Bristol Airport Ltd, including the information that VCS are telling porkies again, and include the comments by my MP and BA Ltd's response. 

You could try sending a private message to @Boudouche1 to see if they are able to and willing to supply you with their correspondence with BA Ltd.

As a side issue, you should complain to VCS and the landowner and BA Ltd and your MP and the DVLA that a data breach has occurred since Excel are a completely separate accounting company to VCS, with different company numbers registered at Companies House. VCS therefore had no right to pass your personal data to a third party, and that third party, Excel Parking Services, had no right to obtain and process your personal data.

You MUST do all of these complaints and kick up a stink. It worked for the other poster and their PCN was quietly dropped. You should also complain to local and national press/media about the lies being spouted at a time when parking and drop-off charges at the airport have been significantly increased. The cynic in me believes this is purely to encourage motorists to stop on the airport roads instead of paying extortionate amounts to "kiss and say 'bye."

PS

Do/did you work at the Lazy R? I was a Patchway inmate for 43 years before retiring.

@RRTechie @Fruitcake Here is the thread you mentioned https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6461225/charge-for-stopping-in-traffic-bristol-airport#latest. Happy to share privately the details - hopefully it can help

RRTechie

Hi support colleagues...

I have just received the 'Letter Before Claim' from VCS with the Information Sheet and Reply Form for the first of the CNs for Dropping Off at Bristol Airport...The second for Pick Up is currently at 'Demand for Payment' stage.

To provide a Status Update, the chronological series of events have been as follows to-date:

Drop Off Charge Notice Status:

20/12/2023:

• Received the Drop Off Charge notice XXXXX

30/12/2023:

• Appealed the Charge Notice on MyParkingCharge.co.uk (VCS Appeal procedure provided on their Charge Notice)
• Received confirmation response of my Appeal being sent and told if no further reply to email cpo@excelparking.co.uk
• Complained to Bristol Airport using their complaints form.
• Complained to Ontario Teacher’s Pension Plan by email.
• Acceptance of emails received from Ontario Teacher’s Pension Plan

02/01/2024:

• Received response from Bristol Airport stating they back VCS and all complaints must go to them

03/01/2024:

• Received Rejection from Excel on behalf of VCS stating no Bylaws exist and that the 2012 Bylaws are out of date

07/01/2024:

• GDPR Complaint Sent to VCS
• Charge Notice and GDPR Complaint Sent to The IPC
• GDPR Complaint Sent to Bristol Airport
• Charge Notice and GDPR Complaint Sent to Local MP - No Response!

28/01/2024:

• Sent email to MP to chase a response due to not having revived a reply from him.
• NO RESPONSE FROM MP!

03/02/2024:

• Re-Sent my initial email by message to MP via Write To Them website to chase a response due to not having revived a reply from him.
• NO RESPONSE FROM MP!

08/02/2024:

• Received a Demand for payment letter from VCS

09/02/2024:

• Sent complaint to VCS via their ‘Contact Us’ web page Message system regarding their Demand for Payment letter
• NO RESPONSE FROM VCS!

22/02/2024:

• Re-Sent complaint to VCS via their ‘Contact Us’ web page Message system regarding their Demand for Payment letter
• Screenshot Confirmation of message sent saved
  
• NO RESPONSE FROM VCS!
  

24/02/2024:

• Sent complaint to VCS via their ‘Contact Us’ web page Message system regarding their Final Demand for Payment letter
• Recorded Sending of message on their Contact Us page
• Sent similar complaint as sent to VCS above to IPC

26/02/2024:

• Received reply from IPC stating that the IPC complaints portal is to be used where a motorist believes that an operator has breached our Code of Practice.

06/03/2024:

• Received Letter Before Claim from VCS
  
• Drop Off Bylaws Complaint Against VCS Sent To Bristol Airport.