Take your meter readings on 1st January 2024

JSHarris

Scot_39 said:

If EOn Next - my supplier are taking that 1/2 hourly data and in any way using it in a way identifiable to me as an individual - which I suspect include using it to bill me if then keep it - they could very likely to be in breach of data protection for smart meters - if not GDPR itself then quite possibly DAPF (data access and privacy framework) - specifically for smart meters.

As I have deliberately not given EOn permission to access it - only the daily readings.

And I used to - so probably still have - a legal right to opt out of that.

There was initially even an option to only allow them the mandatory monthly data - as I say opting out of daily possible - and you still I believe have to actively opt in to 1/2 hourly data

As some have found recently when wanting to take part in energy saving rebate schemes but couldn't as some suppliers said needed a month of full 48 hour history before signing up for a savings day / event.

They don't see any personally identifiable data as defined under GDPR, that's partly why the DCC exists!  All suppliers see is the MPAN and time stamped 30 minute unit register data for their registered customers.  They link the MPAN to the personal data you give them, exactly as every energy supplier has done for decades.  The only difference between smart metering and dumb metering is that they get 48 readings per day instead of one reading whenever one is submitted.

Scot_39

So whats the point of DAPF - and giving users the ability to authorise suppliers the right to access it ?

As I say the only mandatory reading DAPF actually insisted on was the monthly reading.

AFAIK the button to authorise half hourly data access still on my on line account.  Others were having to log in and switch it last year - to take part in energy savings / refund payment sesions.

JSHarris

Scot_39 said:

So whats the point of DAPF - and giving users the ability to authorise suppliers the right to access it ?

As I say the only mandatory reading DAPF actually insisted on was the monthly reading.

AFAIK the button to authorise half hourly data access still on my on line account.  Others were having to log in and switch it last year - to take part in energy savings / refund payment sesions.

DCC get all the data from every working smart meter in the land, there is no means for customers to only accept sending part of it.  If you have a working smart meter then DCC is always getting 48 time-stamped register readings from your meter every day.  The only link to your address (and it's only your address, not your name or the names of anyone else living there) is the MPAN, and MPANs have been linked to addresses for decades, long before smart meters.

Any arrangement you have with any supplier to only make use of some of the data is between you and that supplier, it doesn't change the fact that the meter will be sending all the data it collects to the DCC and the DCC will be making that data available to any authorised supplier.

DCC are only allowed to make your data available to three groups, suppliers, DNOs and gas network operators and authorised bodies that use the data for agreed purposes (mostly associated with grid planning and informing government energy policy)

pseudodox

I am with EDF on Kraken, paying MVDD.  At the last changeover point in tariff (1 Oct) I had already given them my usual reading on 26 Sept which had generated a bill up to 25 Sept.  I then gave a reading on 1 Oct, which generated a revised bill total up to 30 Sept but they took it as 2 DD payments 10 working days after each of those readings.  I had hoped this might have shifted my usual billing period to be to the last day of any month, which would make things very simple for future quarterly tariff revisions.  But by 25 Oct they reminded me I was due to send my monthly reading to avoid paying the default DD.  Hey Ho!  Makes no difference to me really as I pay the same in the end, but does mean they will take an extra supplementary payment each quarter if they continue this way.  Maybe I could shuffle my reading date forward a couple of days each month until it does settle at the first day - which gets billed to the previous day.

I always photograph my meters when submitting readings and on the last day/first day when tariffs change.  I will do that even when I am on smart meters - you can never have too much proof/back-up.

wild666

I take readings on the last day before the increase normally between 23:30 and 23:59 then they can only charge me for a max of 1kWh more of electric for electric and gas, at that time I would be using very little of both. I have SMETS 1 meters and continue to input readings even though the meters only register for electric and that saves me any fighting with the supplier although one year the supplier, since dumped,  tried to use a lower reading so that they could bill me at a higher rate for some electric and gas but I threatened them with OFGEM and they backed down.

born_again

Scot_39 said:

If EOn Next - my supplier are taking that 1/2 hourly data and in any way using it in a way identifiable to me as an individual - which I suspect include using it to bill me if then keep it - they could very likely to be in breach of data protection for smart meters - if not GDPR itself then quite possibly DAPF (data access and privacy framework) - specifically for smart meters.

As I have deliberately not given EOn permission to access it - only the daily readings.

And I used to - so probably still have - a legal right to opt out of that.

There was initially even an option to only allow them the mandatory monthly data - as I say opting out of daily possible - and you still I believe have to actively opt in to 1/2 hourly data

As some have found recently when wanting to take part in energy saving rebate schemes but couldn't as some suppliers said needed a month of full 48 hour history before signing up for a savings day / event.

Genuine question.

What is the difference between allowing daily & half hourly mean to this comment? "they could very likely to be in breach of data protection for smart meters"

No matter how they take it, it is only transmitting the same data, only in 30 min segments. So it is exactly the same data as the daily one.

I could understand your argument if you did not want a smart meter, but when you have one?

JSHarris

TBH I can't possibly see any personal data protection issues at all with however energy readings are provided to a supplier.  It's more secure than someone looking over your shoulder at a petrol pump, noting how many litres you've bought and what your car registration number is.

In the energy mater case the only identifiable information is the Meter Point Administration Number, the MPAN, which identifies the address where the meter is installed.  In the petrol pump case the only easily identifiable information is the vehicle registration, which as well as being connected to an address is also connected to an individual or company.

Scot_39

Well, that's clearly not the govt position.

It clearly sees opportunities for smart meter data use in general to conflict with GDPR.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/smart-metering-implementation-programme-review-of-the-data-access-and-privacy-framework

And note that both DAPF and this review are talking about granuality of data - specifically the time period.

See Section 2.8 that makes that clear.

Within the DCCs 150 agreed network message profiles - messages exist for monthly data use , daily data use and 1/2 hourly data arrays.

DCC by the way does not store that data it merely provides secure message handling -  the end user decrypts the message data and stores if required subject to DAPF and GDPR.


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JSHarris

FWIW, everyone that signs up to a smart tariff, like Agile, Go or whatever has agreed to 30 minute metering by default - none of the smart tariffs work without it AFAIK.  Also worth noting that there's a caveat to what a user can do in terms of preventing access to fine-grained metering data in that it is always available for any "regulated purpose", irrespective of what any consumer agrees to with their supplier.

This really is a bit of a stretch suggesting that there is some sort of privacy issue with smart meter data, IMHO.  Your DNO may well be monitoring your consumption to a far finer granularity than your smart meter, as part of the routine network monitoring they've been doing for years.  You may well not even be aware they are doing it, unless you happen to be in when they fit the monitor to the cable coming into to your house.  

As mentioned before, my DNO did this a couple of years ago.  They knocked on the door, told me they suspected an intermittent network fault and that they were fitting a monitoring recorder to my supply for a few days.  Interesting process, when the chap came to take the monitor off he uploaded all the data to a laptop in his van and let me have a look at it.  IIRC it logged power, voltage, current, power factor, frequency etc every 6 minutes, 24/7, for how every many days it was connected. 

Scot_39

born_again said:

Scot_39 said:

If EOn Next - my supplier are taking that 1/2 hourly data and in any way using it in a way identifiable to me as an individual - which I suspect include using it to bill me if then keep it - they could very likely to be in breach of data protection for smart meters - if not GDPR itself then quite possibly DAPF (data access and privacy framework) - specifically for smart meters.

As I have deliberately not given EOn permission to access it - only the daily readings.

And I used to - so probably still have - a legal right to opt out of that.

There was initially even an option to only allow them the mandatory monthly data - as I say opting out of daily possible - and you still I believe have to actively opt in to 1/2 hourly data

As some have found recently when wanting to take part in energy saving rebate schemes but couldn't as some suppliers said needed a month of full 48 hour history before signing up for a savings day / event.

Genuine question.

What is the difference between allowing daily & half hourly mean to this comment? "they could very likely to be in breach of data protection for smart meters"

No matter how they take it, it is only transmitting the same data, only in 30 min segments. So it is exactly the same data as the daily one.

I could understand your argument if you did not want a smart meter, but when you have one?

Then perhaps you do not understand the value of data.  Its potential uses and misuses.
The same data stored at inappropriate resolutions can be useless for purpose or simply uneedlessly costly to store and process computationally.
And at different granuality opens up loads of potential uses.

The 1/2 hr data is sent to suplliers in a daily group - all 48 at once afaik - there certainly dcc messages defined including the full 48 tables.

DAPF defaults smart meter data to daily data resolution only - it specifically does not grant supliers any rights to usage data measured more frequently
It even gives the user the right to opt out of daily access - back to mandatory monthly.
1/2 hourly resolution data is explicitly an optional domestic consumer opt in as far as suppliers concerned.


I am not sone conspiracy nut - I like my smart meter - I like and still use my IHD repeatedly daily.

But as a professional dealing with data and its analysis, I value data, its appropriate frequency / resolution in terms of purpose and the need to protect it in a business sense on behalf of my past employers and their clients.

So take energy usage and DAPF resolution levels and its potential

MONTHLY
Data could be used to tell if away for long periods within the month compared to that month in a previous year or similar month  - e.g. spotting a longer say wk business or holiday trip.

DAILY
Could tell if out that day easily in most cases.
Spot with reasonable confidence abnormal variations - taking or skipping large power demands  laundry/drying days, shower, bath etc


1/2 Hourly
Could tell not only if but when when doing certain activities - again especially those taking large power demands.
Showering, heating, cooking etc
Now with confidence even lower energy devices events possible as AI algorithms applied TVs, kettles etc at times.
Awake or sleeping etc etc.


My supllier only bills me monthly for usage - it needs no more than the last months meter register totals - as appears on bills - to do so.

I have never opted out of daily - until I knew about DAPF -  not even sure was clearly ever given the option.

My supplier used to have a facility to enable 1/2 hourly - not looked for a while - but they have suggested I use it more than once.

And as above others wanting to join grid rebate schemes for peak demand reduction etc - have been told to log in and select it then reapply in some cases at my own supplier approx a month later.

But on my legacy tariff - I am never allowed on such schemes anyway.

So unless I was or wanted to be on agile tracker or a smart EV tariff using half hourly data billing - there is no direct financial incentive to enable it.