TV Licensing Law? Virgin TV Package but not watching any live TV

cerebus

Heedtheadvice said:

cerebus said:

Username03725 said:

Seems this all being made a little overcomplicated.

The TVL website states:

You don’t need a TV Licence if you never watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer*.
This applies to any device, including a TV, computer, laptop, phone, tablet, games console or digital box.

And that's how the requirement for a licence is currently framed. If you watch ANY live tv in the UK regardless of where it originates you need a licence. If you watch anything on the BBC iPlayer you need a licence. If you watch live tv on a streaming service - e.g. live tennis on Amazon Prime, live football on TNT Sport - you need a licence. 

You don't need one for viewing any other streamed content, from Apple, Netflix, Youtube or any other source. Owning the relevant equipment hasn't been the deciding factor in requiring a licence for a long long while. 

Agreed.   

Have you changed your mind cerebus?

You earlier wrote 'My computer, laptop and phone are all capable of watching live TV or using iplayer does that mean I need a tv licence? No'

Now you agree with

'You don’t need a TV Licence if you never watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer*.
This applies to any device, including a TV, computer, laptop, phone, tablet, games console or digital box.'

Surely the converse is true I.e. watch live etc on any device and you need? Or is it just the live bit you agree with?

I hope we all understand that purely 'owning' does not need...

However

Having the capability does need....according to the Act. It is quite clear on that matter is it not? Irrespective of type of device.

All I will add is that the chances of being caught are slim, you will usually be at an address that comes to the notice of the the inspectors. The number is quite a small percentage of UK residences but you might just be one of the additions to the growing list that have been 'caught ' evading and argue that the law does not apply to them and they never watch anything live. If they do go after you then there are several technological ways to show capability and use. It does not require admission though some on here thing closed mouth would be a good defence!

Very confused.com

Both the top two paragraphs are the exact same thing, you do not need a tv licence if you don't watch live tv , regardless whether the device is capable of receiving live tv or not

So no I am not changing my mind 

Your very muddled and confusing,  contradictory post makes little sense, I will suggest you heed your own advice in your last sentence 

km1500

@cerebus is correct

you do not need a tv licence if you don't watch live tv or iplayer regardless whether the device is capable of receiving live tv/iplayer or not

an example given many times is that if you own a laptop or mobile phone, you don't need a TV licence to own it

however, if you do watch live TV or iplayer (and this means on any device) then you need licence

Heedtheadvice

Well I agree my post could have been better written. Guilty m'lud!

The point I am making is that the 'capability ' is clearly covered by the Act and defined by the Statutory Instrument in that you do not need to actually watch the live tv but just have the equipment (virtually any device) set up to enable watching of live tv such as connected (by whatever means), tuned to programme channels or have data stored to show this is the case.

 For fear of repeating that again I will not post that again.

I am not saying I agree with the definitions, that there are not several contradicting/unclear statements  but it remains a fact that those definition for need exist.

Miser1964

TV Licensing make their 'explanations' and letters as vague as possible in the hope of frightening people into buying a license. Owning a TV, Virgin Media box etc. does not oblige you to purchase a TV licence. 

prowla

From https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-legal-framework-AB16 :

A TV Licence is a legal permission to install or use television receiving equipment to watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, and to use BBC iPlayer*. On any device. This applies regardless of which television channels a person receives or how those channels are received. The licence fee is not a payment for BBC services (or any other television service), although licence fee revenue is used to fund the BBC.

You don’t need a TV Licence to own or possess a television set. However, if you use it to watch or record programmes as they are being shown on TV or live on an online TV service, or to download or watch BBC programmes on demand, including catch up TV, on BBC iPlayer, then you need a TV Licence in order to do so.

A TV Licence is a legal permission to install or use television equipment to receive (i.e. watch or record) TV programmes, as they are being shown on TV or live on an online TV service, and to download or watch BBC programmes on demand, including catch up TV, on BBC iPlayer. This applies regardless of whether you are watching a BBC service or another provider’s channel, which device you are using (TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet or any other), and how you receive them (terrestrial, satellite, cable, via the internet or in any other way).

The rules are clearly about how you use the equipment, not what it is capable of doing.

prowla

Regarding a knock on the door: just ask them whether they have a legal right to enter your house and inspect your equipment.

And tell them they do not have your permission.

km1500

prowla said:

Regarding a knock on the door: just ask them whether they have a legal right to enter your house and inspect your equipment.

And tell them they do not have your permission.

more like "tell them they don't have the legal right ..."

Miser1964

km1500 said:

prowla said:

Regarding a knock on the door: just ask them whether they have a legal right to enter your house and inspect your equipment.

And tell them they do not have your permission.

more like "tell them they don't have the legal right ..."

Unless they've obtained a search warrant granted by a magistrate, in which case TV Licensing will probably have a copper in tow. If you kick off, they'll probably still not enforce the warrant but you're now in a deeper hole.

If there's no warrant, close the door in their face without saying a word.

TD_Cat_Lover

Even if you have no TV and you just listen to the radio you need a licence. But how do they know whether you’re listening to BBC radio stations or others? They used to have to catch you doing it when they came round with their van and scanned what you were watching or listening to. So I can only assume if you’re just streaming then they have to prove you’re watching the channels the TV Licence pays for. They may have a new way of doing this and they would have to prove it in court.

There was discussions as to whether it be scrapped and the BBC have adverts instead. This day and age I don’t understand why they haven’t done this already. Would save everyone a lot of hassle.
 maybe someone at your local citizens advice could help you if you can’t get a definite answer in here that is. No offence intended I’m new. 

wongataa

TD_Cat_Lover said:

Even if you have no TV and you just listen to the radio you need a licence.

No you don't need a licence to listen to the radio if you have no TV.  Radio licences were a thing once but have not been around for many decades.

Part of the benefits of the BBC is the lack of adverts.  I hate them and want TV & radio without adverts.