TV Licensing Law? Virgin TV Package but not watching any live TV

Heedtheadvice

@grumpy as posted earlier I agree with you on that wording.

and one might infer that @km1500 is correct too ( if not meaning that it should be the case!).

....but again that is just my opinion!

Nowhere, so far, in this thread is there a definition of a TV Receiver...in law!...rather than our opinions. If there is one then that, legally, would be very significant......

From the Act

'368Meanings of “television receiver” and “use”

(1)In this Part “television receiver” means any apparatus of a description specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State setting out the descriptions of apparatus that are to be television receivers for the purposes of this Part.'

So the equipment definition can be and is elsewhere, not part of the Act.

Here is the Statutory Instrument wording

'

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Status:

This is the original version (as it was originally made). This item of legislation is currently only available in its original format.
Amendment of regulation 9

6.—(1) In regulation 9 (meaning of “television receiver”)(1), for paragraph (1) substitute—

“(1) Subject to paragraph (2), in Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), “television receiver” means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise)—

(a)any television programme service, or

(b)an on-demand programme service which is provided by the BBC,

whether or not the apparatus is installed or used for any other purpose.”.
'

Clear?

Also in legal matters Case Law is important. I.e. that clarification given by historic court judgement. There have been many a judgement and over 130K  'prosecutions'.

Anybody wishing to fight with the authorities could well be advised to find out about those 'clarifications' !

I do not know them but I suspect the Authority will do as itbis their job.

You can turn an insector away at your door but equally they can apply for a warrant and interview you under the PACE regulations like the police do.

There is a group of volunteers who try to clarify things for the general public. See

https://tvlicencebible.co.uk/tv-licensing-law/

I still find some of their clarification confusing and personally would not rely on it if I happened to being investigated by an inspector!!

Grumpy_chap

Heedtheadvice said:

@grumpy as posted earlier I agree with you on that wording.

and one might infer that @km1500 is correct too ( if not meaning that it should be the case!).

....but again that is just my opinion!

It is often said on these forums that you do not need a TV licence just to own a TV.

The following link (of which I cannot vouch for the authority of the authors) suggests it is about whether the TV is able to receive a signal:
https://www.themix.org.uk/housing/household-bills/tv-licence-7921.html

That does make some sense.  If the TV has no aerial connected and the Virgin TV box is still sealed and in the under stair cupboard that is quite different to all the parts being fully connected up.

Heedtheadvice

Edit of my post after you responded @grump with more explanation Not affecting your quote...

cerebus

Heedtheadvice said:

@grumpy as posted earlier I agree with you on that wording.

and one might infer that @km1500 is correct too ( if not meaning that it should be the case!).

....but again that is just my opinion!

Nowhere, so far, in this thread is there a definition of a TV Receiver...in law!...rather than our opinions. If there is one then that, legally, would be very significant......

From the Act

'368Meanings of “television receiver” and “use”

(1)In this Part “television receiver” means any apparatus of a description specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State setting out the descriptions of apparatus that are to be television receivers for the purposes of this Part.'

So the equipment definition can be and is elsewhere, not part of the Act.

Here is the Statutory Instrument wording

'

 Help about opening options
Opening OptionsExpand opening options
More ResourcesExpand PDF versions
Status:

This is the original version (as it was originally made). This item of legislation is currently only available in its original format.
Amendment of regulation 9

6.—(1) In regulation 9 (meaning of “television receiver”)(1), for paragraph (1) substitute—

“(1) Subject to paragraph (2), in Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), “television receiver” means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise)—

(a)any television programme service, or

(b)an on-demand programme service which is provided by the BBC,

whether or not the apparatus is installed or used for any other purpose.”.
'

Clear?

Also in legal matters Case Law is important. I.e. that clarification given by historic court judgement. There have been many a judgement and over 130K  'prosecutions'.

Anybody wishing to fight with the authorities could well be advised to find out about those 'clarifications' !

I do not know them but I suspect the Authority will do as itbis their job.

You can turn an insector away at your door but equally they can apply for a warrant and interview you under the PACE regulations like the police do.

There is a group of volunteers who try to clarify things for the general public. See

https://tvlicencebible.co.uk/tv-licensing-law/

I still find some of their clarification confusing and personally would not rely on it if I happened to being investigated by an inspector!!

Warrants are extremely rare and you do not need to say anything when interviewed by anybody , you have the right not to say anything 

Username03725

Seems this all being made a little overcomplicated.

The TVL website states:

You don’t need a TV Licence if you never watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer*.
This applies to any device, including a TV, computer, laptop, phone, tablet, games console or digital box.

And that's how the requirement for a licence is currently framed. If you watch ANY live tv in the UK regardless of where it originates you need a licence. If you watch anything on the BBC iPlayer you need a licence. If you watch live tv on a streaming service - e.g. live tennis on Amazon Prime, live football on TNT Sport - you need a licence. 

You don't need one for viewing any other streamed content, from Apple, Netflix, Youtube or any other source. Owning the relevant equipment hasn't been the deciding factor in requiring a licence for a long long while. 

cerebus

Username03725 said:

Seems this all being made a little overcomplicated.

The TVL website states:

You don’t need a TV Licence if you never watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer*.
This applies to any device, including a TV, computer, laptop, phone, tablet, games console or digital box.

And that's how the requirement for a licence is currently framed. If you watch ANY live tv in the UK regardless of where it originates you need a licence. If you watch anything on the BBC iPlayer you need a licence. If you watch live tv on a streaming service - e.g. live tennis on Amazon Prime, live football on TNT Sport - you need a licence. 

You don't need one for viewing any other streamed content, from Apple, Netflix, Youtube or any other source. Owning the relevant equipment hasn't been the deciding factor in requiring a licence for a long long while. 

Agreed.   

FarmerHorse

Grumpy_chap said:

It is often said on these forums that you do not need a TV licence just to own a TV.

The following link (of which I cannot vouch for the authority of the authors) suggests it is about whether the TV is able to receive a signal:
https://www.themix.org.uk/housing/household-bills/tv-licence-7921.html

That does make some sense.  If the TV has no aerial connected and the Virgin TV box is still sealed and in the under stair cupboard that is quite different to all the parts being fully connected up.

The argument is that should you let a Capita agent in to your premises and he/she spots a TV that's fully connected to an aerial, satellite dish or streamer box etc it's quite reasonable for him to conclude that you are in fact using the equipment to watch live tv and therefore need a licence. Conversely if it's not connected to any live TV source he'd have a harder job convincing a magistrate that it was obvious that a licence was required.

So it's not about having or owning the equipment, it's about how it's connected up, although that still doesn't automatically require a licence. It still boils down to whether you watch live TV or the iPlayer etc as per Username's post [above]. Beyond that you'd need to be caught using your tv and then end up in court where the Capita agent would have to persuade a magistrate that the equipment was being used in a way that needed a licence, and you'd be required to demonstrate the opposite position, convincingly. 

cerebus

FarmerHorse said:

Grumpy_chap said:

It is often said on these forums that you do not need a TV licence just to own a TV.

The following link (of which I cannot vouch for the authority of the authors) suggests it is about whether the TV is able to receive a signal:
https://www.themix.org.uk/housing/household-bills/tv-licence-7921.html

That does make some sense.  If the TV has no aerial connected and the Virgin TV box is still sealed and in the under stair cupboard that is quite different to all the parts being fully connected up.

The argument is that should you let a Capita agent in to your premises and he/she spots a TV that's fully connected to an aerial, satellite dish or streamer box etc it's quite reasonable for him to conclude that you are in fact using the equipment to watch live tv and therefore need a licence. Conversely if it's not connected to any live TV source he'd have a harder job convincing a magistrate that it was obvious that a licence was required.

So it's not about having or owning the equipment, it's about how it's connected up, although that still doesn't automatically require a licence. It still boils down to whether you watch live TV or the iPlayer etc as per Username's post [above]. Beyond that you'd need to be caught using your tv and then end up in court where the Capita agent would have to persuade a magistrate that the equipment was being used in a way that needed a licence, and you'd be required to demonstrate the opposite position, convincingly. 

Firstly don't let a crapita person into your home

Secondly it proves nothing you need all those devices connected together to watch streaming content , this is why crapita need you to admit you're watching live telly , the only real way crapita can catch you is to see what you are watching through the window and check if it is live or not and I'm not sure of the legalities of a private company stepping onto private land and staring through your window 

RumRat

Don't forget the Capita stooge gets commission for every TV licence they get signed up. It's their sole reason for coming to your house, so you owe them no explanations. As said, don't talk to them.

Heedtheadvice

cerebus said:

Username03725 said:

Seems this all being made a little overcomplicated.

The TVL website states:

You don’t need a TV Licence if you never watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer*.
This applies to any device, including a TV, computer, laptop, phone, tablet, games console or digital box.

And that's how the requirement for a licence is currently framed. If you watch ANY live tv in the UK regardless of where it originates you need a licence. If you watch anything on the BBC iPlayer you need a licence. If you watch live tv on a streaming service - e.g. live tennis on Amazon Prime, live football on TNT Sport - you need a licence. 

You don't need one for viewing any other streamed content, from Apple, Netflix, Youtube or any other source. Owning the relevant equipment hasn't been the deciding factor in requiring a licence for a long long while. 

Agreed.   

Have you changed your mind cerebus?

You earlier wrote 'My computer, laptop and phone are all capable of watching live TV or using iplayer does that mean I need a tv licence? No'

Now you agree with

'You don’t need a TV Licence if you never watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer*.
This applies to any device, including a TV, computer, laptop, phone, tablet, games console or digital box.'

Surely the converse is true I.e. watch live etc on any device and you need? Or is it just the live bit you agree with?

I hope we all understand that purely 'owning' does not need...

However

Having the capability does need....according to the Act. It is quite clear on that matter is it not? Irrespective of type of device.

All I will add is that the chances of being caught are slim, you will usually be at an address that comes to the notice of the the inspectors. The number is quite a small percentage of UK residences but you might just be one of the additions to the growing list that have been 'caught ' evading and argue that the law does not apply to them and they never watch anything live. If they do go after you then there are several technological ways to show capability and use. It does not require admission though some on here thing closed mouth would be a good defence!