VCS Letter Before Claim

Coupon-mad

The LBC response can be sent whenever you are ready.  Dead easy.

You'll have to ask someone else in the family or a friend to read the second post of the NEWBIES thread if you are not taking it in, perhaps due to stress.

The fifth post of the NEWBIES Thread explains the acronyms - including AOS.

Fruitcake

Start with the fifth post of the NEWBIES as already advised and print off or write out the acronyms common to this forum.

Then move to the second post of the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES that deals with court. If you need more time to get up to speed, tell VCS in writing that whilst you deny the debt, you are seeking debt advice and require the case to be put on hold for 30 days as per court pre-action protocol.

That will give you time to invoke Plan A, a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MP.

In your complaint state that,

The location is not relevant land as determined by the PoFA 2012 therefore liability cannot be transferred to the keeper.
Airport byelaws apply which means that that the registered keeper cannot be held liable for a parking charge.
The keeper was not the driver and can have had no control over the actions of the driver, and therefore cannot be held liable.
A frustration of contract occurred. The driver was attempting to get fuel but the fuel station was closed, meaning the driver had to stop and turn. 
Stopping is not a byelaws offence.
Stopping is not parking as determined by the judge in the appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard, therefore a parking charge notice is not applicable where no parking event occurred.

Use the same points in your response to the LBC, and keep repeating them at every opportunity.

Milliered

Hello Coupon-Mad and Fruitcake
Many thanks for your replies,sorry for the delay in responding,I work nights at the moment.
Have now had a good look through the site and have found the posts#2 and #5 ,was looking for them to be numbered!!!
Couple of points please.
Coupon-Mad......Is the reply by date on the LBC not to be taken seriously then and to not worry about it?

Fruitcake .... That sort of wording is exactly what I was after and obviously mirrors a lot of the generic letter in post #2.
Should I be emailing that to VCS or should I first be asking for the 30 days extension. Or does it not really matter?
Should I also add anything to it about why I couldn't have been the driver and can prove it via boarding passes etc?
Or wait to use that at a later date?

I have read the PoFA 21 but still don't quite know as to whether the CN NTK was Non Pofa compliant.
I did notice that the one sent to me states:
At the issue date of this notice  we don't know both the name and current address for service for the driver and as the Registered keeper of the vehicle,you are now invited etc.

I noticed on the PoFA text it stated the same apart from "as the keeper of the vehicle"!
Is this an error on their paperwork that would make it null and void  or am I clutching at straws?

And I know this is probably a stupid question but will ask it anyway!!!
I haven't been charged for a parking event, the reason is stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited.
Is it all basically the same defence as such?
Many thanks for your patience folks,you are trying to help a real novice!

Coupon-mad

Stopping is the same, yes.

Include this in your response if you were not driving:

I note that you are relying on pursuance of the alleged 'debt' (LOL) against myself but I am not liable. I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle but I was not driving.

You and I both know that Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not apply in this case.

I wish to refer you to recent court cases in which Excel Parking Services Limited and Vehicle Control Services Limited lost at appeal based on this issue.  Do you need reminding?

(i). In the case of Excel Parking Services Ltd v Anthony Smith at Manchester Court, on appeal re claim number C0DP9C4E in June 2017, His Honour Judge Smith overturned an error by a District Judge and pointed out that, where the registered keeper was not shown to have been driving (or was not driving) such a Defendant cannot be held liable outwith the POFA.  Nor is there any merit in a twisted interpretation of the law of agency (if that was a remedy then the POFA Schedule 4 legislation would not have been needed at all).  HHJ Smith admonished Excel for attempting to rely on a bare assumption that the Defendant was driving or that the driver was acting 'on behalf of' the keeper, which was without merit. Excel could have used the POFA but did not. Mr Smith's appeal was allowed, and Excel's claim was dismissed.

(ii). In April 2023, His Honour Judge Mark Gargan sitting at Teesside Combined Court (on appeal re-claim H0KF6C9C) held in Vehicle Control Services Ltd v Ian Edward that a registered keeper cannot be assumed to have been driving. Nor could any adverse inference be drawn if a keeper is unable or unwilling (or indeed too late, post litigation) to nominate the driver, because the POFA does not invoke any such obligation.  HHJ Gargan concluded at 35.2 and 35.3. "My decision preserves and respects the important general freedom from being required to give information, absent a legal duty upon you to do so; and it is consistent with the appropriate probability analysis whereby simply because somebody is a registered keeper, it does not mean on the balance of probability they were driving on this occasion..." Mr Edward's appeal succeeded, and the Claim was dismissed.

I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so.  You cannot transfer liability to myself (the keeper) because you know I was not the driver. I require you to cancel the PCN and erase my data within 14 days of this email.

Fruitcake

Milliered said:

Hello Coupon-Mad and Fruitcake
Many thanks for your replies,sorry for the delay in responding,I work nights at the moment.
Have now had a good look through the site and have found the posts#2 and #5 ,was looking for them to be numbered!!!
Couple of points please.
Coupon-Mad......Is the reply by date on the LBC not to be taken seriously then and to not worry about it?

Fruitcake .... That sort of wording is exactly what I was after and obviously mirrors a lot of the generic letter in post #2.
Should I be emailing that to VCS or should I first be asking for the 30 days extension. Or does it not really matter?
Should I also add anything to it about why I couldn't have been the driver and can prove it via boarding passes etc?
Or wait to use that at a later date?

I have read the PoFA 21 but still don't quite know as to whether the CN NTK was Non Pofa compliant.
I did notice that the one sent to me states:
At the issue date of this notice  we don't know both the name and current address for service for the driver and as the Registered keeper of the vehicle,you are now invited etc.

I noticed on the PoFA text it stated the same apart from "as the keeper of the vehicle"!
Is this an error on their paperwork that would make it null and void  or am I clutching at straws?

And I know this is probably a stupid question but will ask it anyway!!!
I haven't been charged for a parking event, the reason is stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited.
Is it all basically the same defence as such?
Many thanks for your patience folks,you are trying to help a real novice!

MSE in their wisdom decided a few years ago to delete the post numbering system during one of their "improvement updates."

The reply date of the LBC is not important unless you want extra time. If you do want/need extra time, then do so around day 25 from the issue date of the LBC, so you get 3 and a bit weeks plus the 30 days before the claim arrives. I would include the response I have outlined, and expand upon those suggestions with the comments from C-m when you ask for more time.
Do add that you can prove you were not the driver, and will provide such evidence at the witness statement stage should VCS decide to proceed with their vexatious claim. 

Since the registered keeper is also the keeper, then there is no mileage in trying to split that particular PoFA hair.

The defence will be the same irrespective of whether the claim is for a stopping as opposed to parking, but do highlight the fact in your response and defence that stopping is not parking and therefore issuing a parking charge notice for a non-parking event is not appropriate, making a parking court claim vexatioius. 

Milliered

Hi Coupon-Mad and Fruitcake.
Many thanks for the extensive reply,really informative.
I will put all that together tomorrow and email it to VCS in reply to the LBC.
There is two email addresses on their website:  info@vehiclecontrol.co.uk
Or litigation@vehiclecontrol.co.uk
Which one should I send to?
The LBC reply date is 16/12/23 so I will try and get it done before then to save having to ask for an extension.
Many many thanks.

KeithP

Milliered said:

There is two email addresses on their website:  info@vehiclecontrol.co.uk
Or litigation@vehiclecontrol.co.uk
Which one should I send to?

Send it to both.
Also add yourself as a recipient. In that way, you know that if you receive it then it is almost certain that the other addressees have too.

Milliered

Thank you KeithP, good idea.
Will also send an email to East Mids airport customer service. 
Cheers

Fruitcake

Check to see what the airport complaints policy is, and who the landowner is. The landowner may not be the airport operator, and vice versa. Do complain to your MP as well.

Milliered

Hello Fruitcake and Coupon-Mad
I think I am going to request the extra time to deal with this so I can get Christmas out the way and be better prepared.
Would that be wise?
Just struggling at the moment with being on nights and want to make sure I have covered all the ground.
Or do I just bite the bullet and go for it,pretty much dictating all the advice you have both given me word for word?
If I was to ask for extra time,would I just use the generic letter in the newbies thread and keep it short and sweet or add all what you have said?
I'm sorry to be a pain!
If you tell me to just go for it ,I will!
Many thanks