British Gas credit use (cost + debt), had enough for 4 years so considering court action.

tifo

I've looked through the data i received for my SAR and there's nothing in there for the process leading up to the fitting of the prepayment meter in January 2020, apart from 1 letter in December 2019 which i received and which informed me of the install date. I was expecting some data about passing it for a warrant of entry and especially the document/form which i should have received before their entry warrant application and gave me the right to ask for a hearing at my local court. At the time i said i did not receive it and they said it was sent so ask royal mail. But it's not in my data request.

I've always said to them that they got the warrant of entry without telling me they've applied.

Wonka_2

tifo said:

markin said:

Is the spend on loop including the standing charge, or simply the kwh usage with lots of kwh missing for the 5 days?

I've no idea. I don't know how the app works in the background.

But surely, given the depth of your argument about the numbers, you must be absolutely clear what the numbers are showing. What does the SAR information show ? Does it conflict with your 'understanding' or is it vague ? 

And do you receive any regular correspondence/annual statement showing the status of the debt ?

All the focus on whether they had the right to do a/b/c given the apparent persistent level of debt isn't going to help either you case, nor I suspect your health so I'd have thought priority was understanding the financial position rather than looking for distractions/loopholes.

I'm sure if some real numbers were available people would be able to help decipher them and give some advice

tifo

Wonka_2 said:

And do you receive any regular correspondence/annual statement showing the status of the debt ?

I'm sure if some real numbers were available people would be able to help decipher them and give some advice

No, i don't receive any letters or emails about the debt. I only got a letter each when meters were fitted, in January 2020 that we've added £xx debt to the meter and then in March 2021 that we forgot to add £xx to the smart meter and we're doing it now. Other than that i've received no regular statements about the debt. The debt went up by £60 when they fitted the smart meter in March 2021, i've no idea why. The smart meter was fitted because the card for the previous meter would regularly stop working.

I only want the correct info from them so that i can make an informed decision. If they say "your gas use will be £596 next 12 months (like they've done based on previous 12 months)" and I top up £1,200 (an example but i've topped up near this) then i need to know where the money has gone.

At the moment i'm topping up £120 a month with some heating on, it's gone up from £60 a month in summer with no heating on.

It seems i've cut my gas usage in 2023 as they've quoted 7,080 kWh for next year's estimate based on 2023, as in 2022 i used nearly 13,000 kWh, in 2021 just over 15,000 kWh, in 2020 near 14,000 kWh, in 2019 just over 15,000 kWh, in 2017 and 2018 just over 17,000 kWh. These are from summaries i've received at the end of the year (not for every year but it shows previous 2 years for comparison). I can believe this because we've not really used the heating much this year yet i still pay the same for top ups.

In my SAR it states estimate of 11,500 kWh per year and £890 cost.

tifo

The debt balance given to me on 20 November 2023 was £1,191.80, the debt shown in the SAR which i've received a few weeks ago is £1,050.81. That's a difference of £140.99. The data appears to be from the beginning of October as later top ups are not shown. There is no reason why the debt would be more on 20 November 2023 than almost 2 months earlier. I need to query this.

Other points which may help are:

Current Status: Defaulted Balance
Inactive in CAIS: False
Most Vulnerable: True
Extra Care: True
Service Needs: Poor Mobility
Service Needs: Partial sight

Yet I don't get any help from them at all, never in the 4 years i've had the prepayment meter or before that. All they've ever said is "DEBT".

tifo

In the 'Customer financing' section my 'Top ups' are shown as a minus then 'Invoicing' as a plus, i.e. top up -£50.00 and in between several top ups there's 'invoicing' £110.89, then £60.61, then £209.34 etc. I don't know what this 'invoicing is' but it's relevant as it's on the transactions and big numbers. It's either gas use or debt payment.

In the years where i had a credit meter the 'Invoicing' is their bill and then payments are shown as 'Payment outlet' though not all payments seem to be shown.

It doesn't tell me in the Glossary of Terms they've also sent, i.e. codes and what they mean.

I've asked the BG privacy team what it means.

mongoose2009

what was you actual usage for the periods concerned?

go to the meter now and take a reading

then go back thru you bills to get a actual reading (not a estimate)

then you can see what your bill should be 

and what youve paid and what the balance is

bottom line  at the rate youre repaying it  1550/3.75 = 413 weeks

youre never gonne pay it off

tifo

mongoose2009 said:

then go back thru you bills to get a actual reading (not a estimate)

bottom line  at the rate youre repaying it  1550/3.75 = 413 weeks

youre never gonne pay it off

"then go back thru you bills to get a actual reading (not a estimate)"

It's a prepayment meter, i don't have bills.

"bottom line  at the rate youre repaying it  1550/3.75 = 413 weeks, youre never gonne pay it off"

Of course it will be repaid in 490 weeks (£1841/3.75 = 490) which is around 9 years and 5 months. I've been on the prepayment meter with debt for 4 years in January so just over half left and in the first year or so i paid more than £3.75 a week, for example if i topped up 3 times a week like i had to (finances, it was in the middle of my illness) then it took a debt payment every time.

It's a long time to be stuck in this debt but they don't care.

The debt was £1,589 at the first meter in January 2020 and increased to £1,841 when the second (smart) meter was fitted in March 2021 so they seem to have added around £250 to the debt, which i assume would have been the warrant fees. In between it was £1,781 at some time. This may explain why the debt is higher than i'm estimating but there's still a difference of £400 from my calculations and i know in the first year they took much more than £3.75 a week in debt (from the documents it should be £3.70 but i'm i'm not arguing over pennies) because it used to take a debt payment from every top up (they've said as much and i saw this from my top ups) rather than every week.

Of course, i need to find out how the debt increased to £1,841 from £1.589.

From a recent call they said they'll send a breakdown of top ups to gas and debt within a 'few days'. I doubt it but we'll see. They haven't done this in the 2 years i've been asking.

tifo

I've not received the breakdown as promised (it's been a week) and i've not received any acknowledgement or reply from the executive office for over a month, to whom i forwarded the emails to their customer complaints asking to chase the matter up for me.

So, what do i do apart from keep topping up, which is costing a lot?

tifo

I emailed the Managing Director, forwarding my previous emails and asking for (her) to contact the complaints team for a response, this was 2 weeks ago. I've not had any acknowledgement or reply.

I get replies from 'privacy' (for the DSAR) as i'm discussing my data, and lack of many things, with them and also asked them to chase complaints team for a response, they only said "the complaints handler will get back to you". They did say though that the complaint had been closed and gave me another complaints ref number. The complaint which is closed is the one i'm expecting a breakdown from, as informed by the call to me on 12 December 2023, which i pointed to at the end of my post on 13 December 2023. So instead of sending my the information they promised, the complaint was closed. The only resolution they've sent was that the debt repayment is £3.75 a week, which i know anyway.

So, BG are not interested in discussing the matter with me, as they haven't been for 4 years, and just expect me to keep topping up and they charge what they like.

Scot_39

You clearly - for whatever reason ended up in a bit of a mess financially - possibly health - possibly not - and ended up in serious debt on your energy account - and hence you now have a prepay meter.

Energy suppliers are not charities - they do not pay for your debts - other customers do - and many are clearly angry (read the threads here on additional £16 proposal from Ofgem for Apr 24 cap). Others - myself included - see it for what it is - simply an additional amount as a direct consequence of govt policy designed to protect the genuinely vulnerable

And whilst BGas made some errors - the faulty prepay cards (although that sounds a very high rate of failure - and B Gas don't make the meters) and initial debt reduction - they have now fitted a smart meter - and you rejected the ombudsman's solution for the latter. Note B Gas may have implemented anyway.

Consider the reality of the situation - despite owing at times nearly £2000 in their eyes - (at current base rate £1841 = £96.65pa in charges - more than double the profit allowance including any debt interest costs - c£46 built into Jan cap for TDCV users)

- you still have a gas supply (others less vulnerable can legally be cut off)

- you still get emergency credit facilities when have not / cannot top up - temporarily increasing debt - and - only as a guess so could be wrong - repayment rate on next top-up

- you have what seems a very generous nearly 10 years debt plan to repay initial debt - possibly interest free

- you still receive good support - e.g. engineer call out for top up failures.

You by sounds of it need to destress re past situation if can - edit - there's clear a lot of pent up frustration / anger - and emotion doesn't always help and often obscures the case - and concentrate on the numbers.

If not retrospectively - certainly going forwards.

Credits , debt and usage deductions and any repeats of emergency credit / post emergency deductions if different (judging by need to reestablish credit on cut off - suspect that is instant repayment for use - so drops out of the mix - but not 100% sure - last time family had prepay - it took 50p coins)

Once you have a grip on the new data -  perhaps a chat with an energy debt advisor at likes of Citizens advice might come in handy.

And as above posts - electric heating is only cheaper than gas if use a lot less of it as raw prices c4x per kWh - throw in boiler efficiency to the mix - possible less - maybe 3x - lower if a really old boiler or one with permanent pilot light).

If your heating rooms to comparable temperatures - rather than only heating certain rooms or heating the person techniques in those rooms - then it could even be costing a lot more. A modern gas boiler and good use of radiator TRVs in unused rooms - could for many be far cheaper.