British Gas credit use (cost + debt), had enough for 4 years so considering court action.

tifo

Hi

GAS ONLY METER WITH BRITISH GAS.

I'll try and keep it brief and my issue has been ongoing for 4 years and there is a lot that has happened in terms of communication.

I had some medical conditions from the end of 2018 and was incapable of work etc (I have threads on here for these) and built up a debt of approx £1,550 with BG. I wasn't able to agree a payment plan but was paying the bills on receipt (3 months).

I had a credit meter until January 2020 when BG forcefully fitted a prepayment meter. I say forcefully because I didn't receive the paperwork for the warrant in the few months before and the first I knew of it was when i received a letter with the fitting date, so i wasn't able to ask for a hearing for the warrant of entry. At that time i tried to make an arrangement but they would not do it. BG knew about my medical conditions and i was on the priority register for a few years.

Debt repayment was set at £3.70 a week.

My meter is outside in the ground and at first they fitted a non smart with a card top up. From the first 5 or so top ups they took a 90% debt repayment until they changed it, apparently, to the £3.70 a week after i kept contacting them. They promised a refund of the exra debt payments taken over the £3.70 a week but i've never received these.

The meter would take £3.70 from every top up and not every week, so if i topped up 3 times a week as i had to sometimes, it would take £3.70 'to debt' each time. I told them about this but they didn't do anything.

After a short while the top up card would show an error and i'd not be able to top up with it. I had around 10 cards in the year and half i had that meter and this would mean having to use emergency credit until a new top up card arrived, on occasions a BG engineer would have to come and put credit on the meter as i didn't have a card.

In March 2021 they fitted a smart prepay meter and i top up online. Usually this works but on many occasions since then i've had to manually enter the 20 digit code to the meter. This is not easy due to the very small display and the text not being clear against the green display light.

My credit use has been higher than comparable properties and is higher with the smart meter. I understand that prices have been much higher over the past 12 months than before but i'm comparing other properties and kWh use not.

I've used approx 7,080 kW in the last year (BG estimate) and they've used this to tell me my 'bill' will be £596 next 12 months at current prices. Of course these estimates change with the price cap.

Looking at the past 12 months i must've topped up at least £1,400. Last November and December it was nearing £200 a month gas top ups. This came down from January this year and in 'summer' i was topping up £60 a month with no heating use and little gas use (we don't cook every day). I couldn't work out where the credit is going to as £3.70 a week repayment is £15.86 a month at the most. Since then it's slowly been going up and is now £120 a month in November, £90 a month in October etc.

Earlier year under a complaint I was told the debt is set at £3.75 a week.

I've always asked BG for a breakdown of where my credit goes to and even more so since the smart meter was fitted, as i top up online and it's sent to the meter and goes down every day. But they won't tell me.

Since the first meter was fitted in January 2020 i have to check the credit every few days so that it does not run out and because on some days, or weeks, it will use more or less than before. It's random. Checking the meters like this is difficult for me and was very difficult from January 2020 as i was in the middle of my severe conditions at that time. BG know all this.

There's been a few complaints over the years and first one was to the Ombudsman who said BG done nothing wrong, ever. I made a complaint to the executive office at the beginning of this year when the news articles about BG forcefully fitting prepayment meters. At the beginning the person dealing with it said they might be able to change it back to a credit meter, looking at the mobility issues i have but when he asked a manager the reply was No, there's a debt on it. That was it, no movement. Even my MP office wrote to them but they said same thing. Within this complaint i asked for a breakdown of where my credit has been going to, i.e. £x.xx to gas, £x.xx to debt etc. but they won't give me anything but tell me how much debt i'm paying per week.

I had issues topping up several weeks ago and was on the web chat to see if could top up from their end. They said no so i had to, with difficulty, top up manually outside. I asked about the debt balance and was told it's approx £1,150. So in 3 years and 11 months it's gone down by £400 at £3.75 a week. I was surprised because i was expecting it to be at least £800 (£16.07 x 47 months is £755 and taking this away from £1,550 gives near £800). The person said if i'm not happy he can raise a complaint which we did, I wrote the complaint for him and essentially it stated that i'm not happy about the debt balance as was expecting less and could they give me a breakdown of how they've come to the current balance and a breakdown of how much of my top ups have gone to the debt. I received a telephone call from a very assertive guy who would not let me speak and his answer was '£3.75', i.e. that's how much debt you pay per week. I argued this is not the complaint but he would not have it. I later received a letter from someone else saying the debt repayment is £3.75 and complaint is resolved. No breakdown of credit or how they come to the current figure. And in the first few months BG took a lot of credit as debt payment at 90% of top up and then at every top up not every week.

That was the last straw and i've had it with them. I've no choice but to keep topping up and want to put an end to the matters.

By the way, we don't put the heating on much, even during this cold snap as the credit seems to go down a lot, we use electric heaters which of course push up the electricity bill but i've no choice. So with a bit of heating and some cooking i'm now on £120 a month credit use. I expect this will reach around £170 a month this December.

There's no transparency with the top ups and i've no idea where the credit is going to. It's been the same for 4 years and BG won't tell me.

I made a SAR under GDPR and have received the info yesterday but not looked through it yet.

My issues with BG are:

1. I shouldn't have had a prepayment meter fitted since i was/am a vulnerable customer and they are/were aware if the conditions i have and that it would be difficult for me to monitor the meter.

2. As per 1, it is difficult for me to regularly check the meter or manually top up, the screen is hard to see and i have visual problems, i also suffer from chronic gout and checking etc the ground meter is sometimes very hard for me.

3. I'm being charged an excessive amount of credit and there is no transparency, i have no idea where the money is going and it does not seem to be going to the debt, i've made a lot of payments to the debt that i'm aware of and the smart meter is set to £0.022 per hour to debt.+

4. I can't keep topping up with the above positions.

ANY HELP AND ADVICE WOULD BE WELCOME.

Thanks

EssexHebridean

well firstly, there is no sense in using electric heaters to top up when electric is 4 times the cost of gas. I appreciate your frustration with the credit situation, but you'd still do better to stick with gas for heating. 

Have you checked your actual use - perhaps by using one of the third party apps (I'm assuming you can use these with a prepay smart meter?) 
And have you checked back on your bank statements to get an accurate figure for the top ups too? 

Gerry1

tifo said:

the smart meter is set to £0.022 per hour to debt.

There are 168 hours in a week, so £3.75 per week works out at 2.23p per hour, which means it's correct.

ArbitraryRandom

You said any advice welcomed - my advice would be that none of the issues you've given at the bottom of your post can be resolved by court action, so you'd be wasting your money filing a claim.  

Court is for if you can quantify an amount of money (loss or debt) that someone owes you - not if you're generally unhappy with a service and want the service to change or feel you're owed compensation for poor customer service/distress. That's what the ombudsman is for.

The challenge you might have (and had with your previous ombudsman case) is that the ombudsman doesn't investigate and they can't require a supplier to provide information - they only make a ruling based on the evidence presented to them by both sides... so if you think something is wrong then you need to get the information to prove it (via subject access or making a log of payments in vs running balance and use) before you escalate the case. 

You can't go back to the ombudsman with the same issue (and I expect you're out of time to have them reconsider the previous case), but you could try with a complaint about your supplier not supporting you with your disability and difficulties adding credit or taking readings. The ombudsman is unlikely to require them to remove the meter while you're still in debt, but they might have a view on your difficulties topping up and might also require your supplier to give you a break down of your usage.

As above, using electric heating is counterproductive when you could spend that extra money paying down your debt (I would suggest paying any available money on the debt and getting rid of it as soon as possible so you can move on without this stress over you - inc changing suppliers if you feel you can't trust BG anymore).  

I also agree with the suggestion of trying something like the loop app (there's a few different third party apps that you can install on smart phones and tablets) so you can see your usage/predict what your bill should be, which will let you work out where your credit is going. https://loop.homes/what-is-loop/

tifo

Gerry1 said:

tifo said:

the smart meter is set to £0.022 per hour to debt.

There are 168 hours in a week, so £3.75 per week works out at 2.23p per hour, which means it's correct.

I didn't say it's wrong, I said that's what the meter is set at and is what it should be, but this is not reflected in the remaining debt balance which is what's driven me to take action now.

I want the debt to be lower than £500 (whenever) so i can consider moving, if possible.

tifo

ArbitraryRandom said:

You said any advice welcomed - my advice would be that none of the issues you've given at the bottom of your post can be resolved by court action, so you'd be wasting your money filing a claim.  

Court is for if you can quantify an amount of money (loss or debt) that someone owes you - not if you're generally unhappy with a service and want the service to change or feel you're owed compensation for poor customer service/distress. That's what the ombudsman is for.

The challenge you might have (and had with your previous ombudsman case) is that the ombudsman doesn't investigate and they can't require a supplier to provide information - they only make a ruling based on the evidence presented to them by both sides... so if you think something is wrong then you need to get the information to prove it (via subject access or making a log of payments in vs running balance and use) before you escalate the case. 

You can't go back to the ombudsman with the same issue (and I expect you're out of time to have them reconsider the previous case), but you could try with a complaint about your supplier not supporting you with your disability and difficulties adding credit or taking readings. The ombudsman is unlikely to require them to remove the meter while you're still in debt, but they might have a view on your difficulties topping up and might also require your supplier to give you a break down of your usage.

As above, using electric heating is counterproductive when you could spend that extra money paying down your debt (I would suggest paying any available money on the debt and getting rid of it as soon as possible so you can move on without this stress over you - inc changing suppliers if you feel you can't trust BG anymore).  

I also agree with the suggestion of trying something like the loop app (there's a few different third party apps that you can install on smart phones and tablets) so you can see your usage/predict what your bill should be, which will let you work out where your credit is going. https://loop.homes/what-is-loop/

I'm using the loop app and it's very different to the credit use (lower), i assume because it measures gas use and debt is also taken from the credit. For example last month it showed £58 but i used £90.

I'm not going back to the ombudsman for the previous case with the same issue, i mentioned it as a background to the issues. At that time they did ask BG to refund the 90% debt deduction and offer some compensation for the bad service but i didn't agree with the decision so declined it. There was some compensation stated for BG defaulting me the day they fitted a prepayment meter, my argument being that from that date I didn't have a credit meter so what's the default for as the credit account should have been closed. It was closed some 6 months later but the default remained.

No 3 in my list can be taken to court with a financial sum for the difference in what the debt should be and what it is. There's a near £400. An amount may be able to be claimed for distress. Within this a breakdown can be asked, i.e. how much of my credit goes to gas and how much to debt. No 1 and 2 can possibly be rolled into it for not following ofgem guidelines on vulnerable customers. There's also the fact that the correct court process wasn't followed when BG got the entry warrant. I know it's magistrates and not civil court but is still done under the gas supply Act.

I've made a SAR and will look through the info before i do anything.

I should also be receiving the £250 as reported here https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2023/11/british-gas-is-giving-p250-free-credit-to-certain-prepayment-cus/ but i haven't received anything about it. I meet the stated criteria.

At the end of the day I have a right to know where my credit is being used and if this is not to the debt then where? BG just want me to keep topping up and have been absolutely no help at all in the 4 years i've had the prepayment meter. I can't keep topping up at excessive amounts.

tifo

EssexHebridean said:

well firstly, there is no sense in using electric heaters to top up when electric is 4 times the cost of gas. I appreciate your frustration with the credit situation, but you'd still do better to stick with gas for heating. 

Have you checked your actual use - perhaps by using one of the third party apps (I'm assuming you can use these with a prepay smart meter?) 
And have you checked back on your bank statements to get an accurate figure for the top ups too? 

I agree that electric heaters are not the best option but that's how it is, the kids have 1 each in their rooms and being used regularly. They say because the house it cold.

I use the loop app and it always shows lower than the credit used, i assume because the rest of it is going to the debt.

I look at my top ups from the bank statement and the email BG send immediately. Many top ups are missing from the online top up history anyway.

tifo

Top ups:

24 October £30 (was some £8 remaining), 5 November £40, 19 November £40, which finished by end Nov so 1 December £40 with £3.50 credit remaining.

For November the loop app shows £61.66 gas use with data missing.

Manually checked (I have to) credit balance was £20.41 in the morning of 31 October and approx £3.34 a day is used to let's say on 1 Nov it was £17 credit, then £40 top up, another £40 top up and and approx £3.50 credit till end of November. That's £100 credit used for November.

Last November (2022) credit use was £150 at £50 every 10 days. In December it was £186. I know unit prices were higher.

tifo

Last year BG estimated 14,300 kWh for 2022, this year they estimated 7,080 kWh for next year. I don't understand why such a 50% difference.

I had a new Worcester boiler fitted beginning of last year.

markin

Is the spend on loop including the standing charge, or simply the kwh usage with lots of kwh missing for the 5 days?

tifo

markin said:

Is the spend on loop including the standing charge, or simply the kwh usage with lots of kwh missing for the 5 days?

I've no idea. I don't know how the app works in the background.