Abolish standing charges

MultiFuelBurner

sevenhills said:

MattMattMattUK said:

That would be onerous and bureaucratic to administer, just apply the carbon tax direct to the product or service if you want a carbon tax.

As I see it, we need to tax carbon, because higher prices dissuade its use. As can be seen from taxing smoking.

So how do we make sure the poor are not disadvantaged?

As can be seen from council tax, taxing houses is more straightforward than taxing people. We would then need to bring in allowances for how many people per house, but not overcomplicate it.

There are many grants and schemes from insulation to heat pumps, solar etc for those at a certain earning level and below. The poor I would say can pretty much make that move for free

https://energysmart.group/your-grant-application/

matelodave

sevenhills said:

MattMattMattUK said:

That would be onerous and bureaucratic to administer, just apply the carbon tax direct to the product or service if you want a carbon tax.

As I see it, we need to tax carbon, because higher prices dissuade its use. As can be seen from taxing smoking.

So how do we make sure the poor are not disadvantaged?

As can be seen from council tax, taxing houses is more straightforward than taxing people. We would then need to bring in allowances for how many people per house, but not overcomplicate it.

IMO increasing the cost for those who are not "disadvantaged" will do nothing to reduce the consumption of those who are.

Bunging everyone great heaps of largesse last year didn't do much to reduce consumption and those who got the most didn't always spend it on fuel or energy. Giving significant sums to those who probably use the most doesn't change their behaviour or encourage them to use less

Just wodging on tax makes stuff more expensive for everyone and wont solve the problem, Those who can afford it will either do something to reduce their consumption (ie solar panels, batteries, insulation etc) or just put up with the extra cost. However the poorer members of society - not necessarily "disadvantaged" (what ever that is) but trying their best to survive will be the hardest hit because they don't actually qualify for all the benefits that are being given away and all their cost will increase (not just the energy they use but food and other stuff that uses energy to manufacture and distribute)

Those who do qualify for benefits wont care because the extra costs will probably get covered.

wild666

I believe that standing charges were bought in as a short term measure in the 70's and they haven't scrapped them since. If they put the SC's on the average daily usage of electric and gas then some would benefit as they use less than the average daily usage on electric and gas. 
Many people would benefit from the SC's put onto average usage in the summertime but would see higher bills in the winter as they used more gas or electric to heat their homes. 
There would be losers who use more than the average usage of electric and gas per day even in the summer months but I feel that putting the SC's onto the average usage is fairer than paying an SC every day when the SC's might be more than the usage of electric and gas for low users. 
I for one would benefit from the charges being put onto the kWh price of electric and gas as my daily usage is about 3.6 to 4.2 kWh of electric per day and about 4 kWh of gas per week in summer. I would pay more in winter for using the gas, the increase would be about 2p on electric and 0.6p on gas but suppliers would lose out in summer but gain in winter as more electric and gas is used.

wild666

400ixl said:

Baldeagle095 said:

 Taxes aren't levied with a standard charge per household so why should energy charges? 

What is Council Tax then?

Shifting the standing charge to the unit rate will likely disadvantage the poor more.

It would only be a disadvantage to high users as they are the one's who use more electric and gas. on the other hand it might get people out of the home more trying to save electric and gas. There will always be those who are housebound and cannot get out but it's those that will be affected by the SC's being divided by the average daily usage being put onto the price per kWh.

debitcardmayhem

There is one thing that intrigues me, electricity SC is more than gas, if a gas main fails vs a sub station / overhead cable what costs more to repair? As for a new build (e.g. new estate) which is cheaper. There seems to be an inequality in this too.

Netexporter

debitcardmayhem said:

There is one thing that intrigues me, electricity SC is more than gas, if a gas main fails vs a sub station / overhead cable what costs more to repair? As for a new build (e.g. new estate) which is cheaper. There seems to be an inequality in this too.

It's all the other stuff, outside directly providing the service, that gets loaded on to electricity, because everybody has leccy but only some have gas.

MWT

debitcardmayhem said:

There is one thing that intrigues me, electricity SC is more than gas, if a gas main fails vs a sub station / overhead cable what costs more to repair? As for a new build (e.g. new estate) which is cheaper. There seems to be an inequality in this too.

Some costs are only added to the electricity SC as not everyone has gas, so it is the logical place to put any cost elements that are considered to be generally applicable to everyone, but not specifically attributable to gas.
 

Qyburn

wild666 said:

I believe that standing charges were bought in as a short term measure in the 70's and they haven't scrapped them since. 

Do you have a source for that? I've seen it stated that they were introduced in the 1930s but no suggestion it was temporary. 

Gerry1

wild666 said:

I believe that standing charges were bought in as a short term measure in the 70's and they haven't scrapped them since.

Please STOP repeating this disinformation: you've already been shown it's untrue.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80420837/#Comment_80420837

Standing charges were always the case with the gas and electricity Boards.  Every quarter the meter reader called, a bill popped up in the letter box and you probably paid in the Board's high street shop.

If you didn't pay within a reasonable time then a red warning letter would be sent.

Qyburn

debitcardmayhem said:

There is one thing that intrigues me, electricity SC is more than gas, if a gas main fails vs a sub station / overhead cable what costs more to repair? As for a new build (e.g. new estate) which is cheaper. There seems to be an inequality in this too.

I expect one factor is that gas only covers urban areas so the distribution network would have a lower cost per customer. They aren't under any obligation to extend the network if it wouldnt be cost effective.