Abolish standing charges

Scot_39

matelodave said:

So you reckon that a proportion of benefits should be paid for a defined purpose leaving no leeway for the recipient to squander it in anyway they seem fit. Obviously the benefits that are being received would have to be reduced by the amount that gets paid directly to the energy companies or the landlord etc.

Sounds reasonable to me as then important stuff like rent, energy and vouchers that can only be spent on wholesome food ensures that those who need it get food, warmth and shelter but with perhaps a small allowance for incidentals.

At least you wouldn't get energy or rent arrears accumulating. That would save us all paying twice, once for the benefits and again tor the arrears- bring it on.

Except they have already scrapped benefits paying rent directly.

And guess what - rent arrears went up - certainly at my sisters HA.

They had to employ 2 full time staff and external legal teams to pursue the debts.

Guess what happened to everyone else's rent. Up to cover it.

ArbitraryRandom

Apologies if this has been addressed in the 10 previous pages (I did try to read through but admit I got a little bored...). 

I tried to review the Ofgem consultation (as recommended on the first page) and wonder if someone can explain this graph?



I understand the supplier of last resort costs increasing as a result of the many number of companies which crashed - but I'm not sure I understand why there was a corresponding increase in the TNUoS or DuoS? 

If I'm understanding correctly, these costs have increased not because of 'world pressures', but because of UK political decisions re the future energy infrastructure? Therefore, if part of the standing charge were to be reduced or removed, the most sensible argument (to me) its that these should be paid for from (the already progressive) general taxation pot rather than the standing charge - thus allowing the charge to be halved? 

sevenhills

matelodave said:

This has become the same pointless discussion that goes round and round without any sort of resolution.

Those that understand, will accept that there really isn't a better system to proved 24/7 services to every household in the land.

I agree, it's not practical to have zero standing charges.

What should happen is that everyone has their own personal carbon allowance that is low or zero tax, with the more they use the more they pay.

Just like with earnings, £1275 tax free, then after the tax free part you pay 20% tax and then a higher rate at a certain level.

This would initially only work with low taxes on domestic gas and electricity, but other energy could be regulated and included.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/personal-carbon-allowance-trading-climate-crisis-b1956705.html

double_dutchy

sevenhills said:

What should happen is that everyone has their own personal carbon allowance that is low or zero tax, with the more they use the more they pay.

But income tax allowances are for individuals, not households. A six person household isn't necessarily profligate because of high use and similarly a one person household with low use isn't necessarily frugal.

powerful_Rogue

sevenhills said:

matelodave said:

This has become the same pointless discussion that goes round and round without any sort of resolution.

Those that understand, will accept that there really isn't a better system to proved 24/7 services to every household in the land.

I agree, it's not practical to have zero standing charges.

What should happen is that everyone has their own personal carbon allowance that is low or zero tax, with the more they use the more they pay.

Just like with earnings, £1275 tax free, then after the tax free part you pay 20% tax and then a higher rate at a certain level.

This would initially only work with low taxes on domestic gas and electricity, but other energy could be regulated and included.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/personal-carbon-allowance-trading-climate-crisis-b1956705.html

But then so called 'rich' people like me with solar panels will benefit, and people with disabilities which require a constant warm home will suffer.

sevenhills

powerful_Rogue said

But then so called 'rich' people like me with solar panels will benefit, and people with disabilities which require a constant warm home will suffer.

 High energy prices were good for reducing energy usage and climate change, but not a mention of it from those guys in Westminster.
Our MPs could make it work, if they were motivated to do so. Our present energy set-up isn't helping to solve climate change. 

Scot_39

sevenhills said:

matelodave said:

This has become the same pointless discussion that goes round and round without any sort of resolution.

Those that understand, will accept that there really isn't a better system to proved 24/7 services to every household in the land.

I agree, it's not practical to have zero standing charges.

What should happen is that everyone has their own personal carbon allowance that is low or zero tax, with the more they use the more they pay.

Just like with earnings, £1275 tax free, then after the tax free part you pay 20% tax and then a higher rate at a certain level.

This would initially only work with low taxes on domestic gas and electricity, but other energy could be regulated and included.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/personal-carbon-allowance-trading-climate-crisis-b1956705.html

sevenhills said:

matelodave said:

This has become the same pointless discussion that goes round and round without any sort of resolution.

Those that understand, will accept that there really isn't a better system to proved 24/7 services to every household in the land.

I agree, it's not practical to have zero standing charges.

What should happen is that everyone has their own personal carbon allowance that is low or zero tax, with the more they use the more they pay.

Just like with earnings, £1275 tax free, then after the tax free part you pay 20% tax and then a higher rate at a certain level.

This would initially only work with low taxes on domestic gas and electricity, but other energy could be regulated and included.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/personal-carbon-allowance-trading-climate-crisis-b1956705.html

Last year - according to gridiamkate - c55% of all electricity generated in UK was from non fossil fuels (going with the euphamistic current gospel that biomass's 5% counts as green renewable generation).

Assuming the 5% from France mainly EDF nuclear and the 3% from Norway mainly hydro - over 63% - nearly 2/3 green.

The remaining 1/3 from carbon sources - power generation is already covered by varying degrees of green levy charges.

Are you ready to apply the same to domestic gas - and it's 100% carbon emitting energy.

The TDCV is now 11500 kWh gas - 2700 kWh electric.

Taking the 63% above out - thats 11500 kWh emitting CO2 vs 1000 kWh emitting CO2.   

OK at different efficiences - but efficiency unlikely to remotely close that degree of a gap.

And the electric mix is likely to continue to trend away from gas.

Not sure I see many a mainstream politician willing to apply that balance fully.

But like EV vs ICE  - taxation incentives at some point are likely to go from carrot to stick - for the replacement of domestic gas heating - as we march ever closer to 2050.  

Grants like the £5000 (now £7500) for ASHP were introduced as a market incentive to get the ball rolling - just as the now defunct Plug in Car Grant was for EVs (it was upto £5000 in 2012 - it reduced over time to £1500 - by time scrapped last year for most car buyers)

Qyburn

Scot_39 said:
Last year - according to gridiamkate - c55% of all electricity generated in UK was from non fossil fuels 

What's that going look like after 23 million houses have switched from gas to ASHP, and 30 million cars replaced with electric. I did a rough calculation suggesting the cars would add 18% to UK total consumption. ASHP? I don't know what they use annually but 6,000kWh each adds another 43%

Scot_39 said:
Are you ready to apply the same to domestic gas - and it's 100% carbon emitting energy.

Domestic gas hearing's carbon impact is not much different to mains electricity. A couple of years ago it was higher, now it maybe above or below depending on the generation mix. That's before adding the extra 60% that will mostly be gas fired.

Its really not as simple as saying "use electricity for everything and don't worry about energy saving"

MultiFuelBurner

Qyburn said:

Scot_39 said:
Last year - according to gridiamkate - c55% of all electricity generated in UK was from non fossil fuels 

What's that going look like after 23 million houses have switched from gas to ASHP, and 30 million cars replaced with electric. I did a rough calculation suggesting the cars would add 18% to UK total consumption. ASHP? I don't know what they use annually but 6,000kWh each adds another 43%

Scot_39 said:
Are you ready to apply the same to domestic gas - and it's 100% carbon emitting energy.

Domestic gas hearing's carbon impact is not much different to mains electricity. A couple of years ago it was higher, now it maybe above or below depending on the generation mix. That's before adding the extra 60% that will mostly be gas fired.

Its really not as simple as saying "use electricity for everything and don't worry about energy saving"

The flaw in your thinking is the light switch approach to calculation. 23 million won't instantly stop using gas it will be gradual and that's why there is loads of planning for pylons on and off shore connections going through now. They should be planning many more nuclear tractors imo but that's not a vote winner so will have to be after the election for whoever takes control.

Think gradual until 2050.

Netexporter

I did a rough calculation suggesting the cars would add 18% to UK total consumption. ASHP? I don't know what they use annually but 6,000kWh each adds another 43%

A car doing the national average of 8000 miles would use 2000kWh/annum. A heat pump replacing the average gas consumption of 12,000kWh would use about 4000kWh of electricity.