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PCN opposite Royal Mail Hounslow

I went to pick up my wife and needed a hand to carry an item from Argos in Hounslow. I think I was in and out within 5 mins. Didn't see any camera or attendants. Whilst driving away saw a car with two attendants who could have possibly taken the picture. I think they were waiting in the car. 

In the PCN itself and on their portal, the pictures attached is of less than 5 mins. Any chance to appeal?

Here's the PCN https://imgur.com/a/iq2P1nT




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Comments

  • intex310
    intex310 Posts: 102
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    There are no free parkings anywhere in Hounslow, not even during weekends. No wonder why Hounslow high street is going downhill as it is now. Just hopped out of the car to give a hand to carry a box as my wife was coming out of Argos 4 - 5 mins. And those people sitting in their car waiting for the moment!!
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,012
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    edited 21 November 2023 at 9:34PM
    Picking up/dropping off (goods and people) is not parking as determined in the appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard. The transcript is available online.

    Plan A is a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and your MP.

    If that fails, then appeal as keeper using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Add a one liner that the driver was picking up a passenger and goods, and therefore was not parked as determined by the Jopson v Homehguard case. Quote the case number.
    Do not reveal the driver's identity.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,491
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    edited 22 November 2023 at 7:37PM
    intex310 said:
    There are no free parkings anywhere in Hounslow, not even during weekends. No wonder why Hounslow high street is going downhill as it is now. Just hopped out of the car to give a hand to carry a box as my wife was coming out of Argos 4 - 5 mins. And those people sitting in their car waiting for the moment!!
    It's only PPS London Ltd.  Not a fine and not real parking attendants.  You strayed into private land and there was no need.

    You could have parked on street (anywhere except a red route, bus lane or stop, taxi bay or pedestrian crossing of course).

    Did you know that drivers are legitimately allowed to park on double yellows or single yellows on a main street (public highway), to assist a passenger to board or alight, and for loading?

    It's what yellow lines are for.

    Anyway - no paying - do what the NEWBIES thread tells you to do.  And what @Fruitcake said.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • fisherjim
    fisherjim Posts: 5,930
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    If it says "no parking anytime" there is no offer to park for the general public so no contract was offered and a two bit parking company cannot force a charge under a non existent contract.
  • intex310
    intex310 Posts: 102
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    Fruitcake said:
    Picking up/dropping off (goods and people) is not parking as determined in the appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard. The transcript is available online.

    Plan A is a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and your MP.

    If that fails, then appeal as keeper using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Add a one liner that the driver was picking up a passenger and goods, and therefore was not parked as determined by the Jopson v Homehguard case. Quote the case number.
    Do not reveal the driver's identity.
    Thank you. I saw the Jopson's case through Parking cowboys but just to confirm where I can get the case number please? Also, I hope my 14 days' period of submitting an appeal has not been exhausted as of yet. 
  • intex310
    intex310 Posts: 102
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    intex310 said:
    There are no free parkings anywhere in Hounslow, not even during weekends. No wonder why Hounslow high street is going downhill as it is now. Just hopped out of the car to give a hand to carry a box as my wife was coming out of Argos 4 - 5 mins. And those people sitting in their car waiting for the moment!!
    It's only PPS London Ltd.  Not a fine and not real parking attendants.  You strayed into private land and there was no need.

    You could have parked on street (anywhere except a red route, bus lane or stop, taxi bay or pedestrian crossing of course)?

    Drivers are legitimately allowed to park on double yellows or single yellows on a main street (public highway), to assist a passenger to board or alight, and for loading?

    Anyway - no paying - do what the NEWBIES thread tells you to do.  And what @Fruitcake said.
    Coupon-mad as always! Completely agree it was not needed but at that moment I didn't any other option to stop my vehicle so that I could give a hand to my wife carrying an item from Argos. Never thought of those cowboys hiding in the vehicle. If I had seen at least a camera or any other attendant/s, this would not have been a case. Once again, thank you. I will wait for that case number so that I can append it along with my appeal from your template. 
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,491
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    edited 23 November 2023 at 6:33AM
    intex310 said:
    Fruitcake said:
    Picking up/dropping off (goods and people) is not parking as determined in the appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard. The transcript is available online.

    Plan A is a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and your MP.

    If that fails, then appeal as keeper using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Add a one liner that the driver was picking up a passenger and goods, and therefore was not parked as determined by the Jopson v Homehguard case. Quote the case number.
    Do not reveal the driver's identity.
    Thank you. I saw the Jopson's case through Parking cowboys but just to confirm where I can get the case number please?
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80417720/#Comment_80417720

    Why do you think there's only 14 days to appeal? There's 28 days.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Fruitcake said:
    Picking up/dropping off (goods and people) is not parking as determined in the appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard. The transcript is available online.

    Plan A is a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and your MP.

    If that fails, then appeal as keeper using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Add a one liner that the driver was picking up a passenger and goods, and therefore was not parked as determined by the Jopson v Homehguard case. Quote the case number.
    Do not reveal the driver's identity.
    Thank you Fruitcake. I have written to my MP but didn't find landowner. Hope I will get their response on time before 28 days!
  • intex310 said:
    Fruitcake said:
    Picking up/dropping off (goods and people) is not parking as determined in the appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard. The transcript is available online.

    Plan A is a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and your MP.

    If that fails, then appeal as keeper using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Add a one liner that the driver was picking up a passenger and goods, and therefore was not parked as determined by the Jopson v Homehguard case. Quote the case number.
    Do not reveal the driver's identity.
    Thank you Fruitcake. I have written to my MP but didn't find landowner. Hope I will get their response on time before 28 days!
    Otherwise, is this appeal alright?

    I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and MP.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

    If the allegation involves "no parking at anytime" there is no offer to park for the general public so no contract was offered and a two bit parking company cannot force a charge under a non existent contract.

    The car was stopped temporarily for loading and assisting the Defendant's wife to carry back a bulky item from Argos.  This took minutes then the Defendant hurried back down to move the car. There was no 'ticket' on the car, but a few days later a PCN letter from PPS Parking arrived.  The car was not parked so any breach is denied.   The Defendant will rely upon the persuasive appeal case heard by HHJ Charles Harris QC at Oxford: Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd [2016] - claim number B9GF0A9E and cases of similar fact.


  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,153
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    edited 24 November 2023 at 11:05PM
    No, don't send that. For a start, there is no 'defendant' involved. Replace 'the defendant' with 'the keeper'.

    And secondly, and far more important, it tells the parking company who was driving.

    The first two sentences of your last paragraph could perhaps be better written as...
    The car was stopped momentarily for loading a bulky item from Argos.  This took no more than a couple of minutes and the vehicle promptly left the scene.. 

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