CCJ vs CP Plus Ltd (DCBL) Applying for Set-Aside

UncleThomasCobley

NahkoMed said:

Second, I will be seeking independent debt advice, but have no need of additional time in which to do this.

What is this supposed to mean? Unless you are actually asking for a 30 day hold, there is absolutely no reason to put this in. It is no business of theirs whether you are or are not seeking debt advice and by doing so, you are admitting that you believe that you do owe them a debt.

Think this through or be prepared to fail.

NahkoMed

UncleThomasCobley said:

NahkoMed said:

Second, I will be seeking independent debt advice, but have no need of additional time in which to do this.

What is this supposed to mean? Unless you are actually asking for a 30 day hold, there is absolutely no reason to put this in. It is no business of theirs whether you are or are not seeking debt advice and by doing so, you are admitting that you believe that you do owe them a debt.

My reasoning was that a) the reply form and the PAP both suggest to communicate about this, and I don't want to be accused of not complying (since that's one of the things I'll argue about them in my defence) and b) that seeking debt advice doesn't necessarily mean that I believe I owe them a debt. Though, clearly does suggest that at least a bit!

I see your point and I'll take it out, just don't want to give the impression that I haven't thought it through. I really have. This is hard! Thanks again for your help. Literally couldn't do it without you guys!

NahkoMed

Final Draft

Your Ref. #############
Cp Plus Ltd T/a Groupnexus vs #########
Proposed Legal Proceedings

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 30th October 2023 and confirm that my address for service is:

[Redacted]

The following constitutes a formal response to Letter Before Claim.

First, the debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

Second, I note that the amount being claimed has increased from £100 to £170. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents a DRA fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

Third, with regard to the principal sum claimed (£100). Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Finally, may I take this opportunity to remind you that I have, on several occasions made more than reasonable efforts to contact your client and resolve this dispute, well in advance of any proposed legal proceedings. All such efforts have been ignored.  As such I can see little in the way of good faith or legitimate interest in this action, and suggest that you desist from it immediately.

Yours faithfully

_________________________________

will send by email to the info@ address unless anyone knows of any recent problems with that?

Also currently writing to the landowner, and will gather photos next week following suggestions on here. Thanks all for your help. Will be back again when I hear more.

NahkoMed

I got the following response this morning, somewhat unexpectedly...! Any thoughts?:

_______________________

We write in response to your recent correspondence received in our office on ##########.

 

We acknowledge receipt of this correspondence and we can confirm that this matter will remain on hold until further notice, as we are currently reviewing this matter further.

 

Please note, no further action will be taken in the meantime and we will contact you in due course. There is no requirement to respond to this email unless you wish to provide any evidence in regard to this matter or make payment. 

 

Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client account: -

 

[Redacted]
 

You must quote the correct case reference ########### when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred.

 

Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on ########## make payment over the telephone.

Coupon-mad

Ok, so it means they are going to ask Group Nexus.

Maybe it's about the attempts you made to resolve it?  Maybe the VAT question has thrown them.  It's something I've only really thought about this month, hence including it in LBC responses to flush out the truth.

NahkoMed

Afternoon all,

So I finally heard back from DCBL as follows:

___________________

We write in response to your correspondence received in our office on ************.  

 

Please find attached the evidence we hold on the Parking Charge Notice issued against you on*********** at Liverpool Central Village.  

 

We acknowledge the appeal lodged with our Client, in which our Client rejected. Which has been included within the attached for your review. Within the appeal rejection, our Client clarified that by parking and remaining on site, the driver had entered into a contract with them and agreed to comply with the terms displayed on the signage displayed. On the date in question, your vehicle was recorded on site for 4 hours and 2 minutes without having payment of the appropriate tariff registered on the VRM.  

 

The letter also informed you that you had the opportunity to further appeal to an independent body (POPLA) if you disagreed with the decision; alternatively, the time frame to make payment of the reduced balance of £60.00 was extended by a further 56 days. However, as a further appeal was not lodged nor payment made, our Client was entitled to instruct Solicitors to pursue payment and is entitled to recover the costs of doing so.Had you of paid as per the Contract, there would have been no need for recovery action so the amount due would not have increased.

 

Please note, the HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140), which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that parking charge notices fall out of the scope of VAT.  

  

You now have 30 days from the date of this email to make payment of the outstanding balance of £170.00. Failure to make payment will result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference. 

Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client account: -

[REDACTED]

You must quote the correct case reference (*****************) when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred. 

Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on 0203 838 7038 to make payment over the telephone or online at https://dcblegal.co.uk/response/pay-online/.

Kind Regards,

____________________________

Clearly, they haven't answered any of the questions in my response to LBC (above), namely:

1. Does the additional £70 represent a DRA fee?

2. If so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? (They say parking charges are outside the scope of VAT but say nothing about DRA fees)

3. If so, why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

4. Is the principal sum (£100) claimed for damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

The "evidence" they've attached is mostly just a repeat copy of stuff they've already sent me (photos of the vehicle, copy of the original PCN etc.) They also attach photos of the signs - I can upload those if they're useful at this stage - and a copy of the correspondence I originally had with GroupNexus over the original appeal. Notable about this: half the page is missing so I can't read the lower messages properly and, as I mentioned in the original response to LBC, most of my questions and requests for information at that time also went unanswered. No further information has been given.

Am I right that the thing to do now is wait for the claim and prepare a defence, including this failure to adhere to PAP? Or is it worth pushing back again at this stage?

Thanks in advance,

Coupon-mad

Dear Sirs, 

ref: rip off PCN number xxxxxxxx

You said:

"Please note, the HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140), which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that parking charge notices fall out of the scope of VAT.  "

But I wasn't asking about the PCN.  You have not answered my question. I want to know (and am entitled to ask) if the 'extorting money from motorists' £70 so called DRA fee add-on is net or inclusive of the VAT element?  If you don't know, ask a teacher in your office playground.

If the £70 includes the VAT element, why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

You also missed this question, so while you are about it, I'll have an answer to this too:

Is the principal sum (£100) claimed for damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Or perhaps you'd like to discontinue now and save yourselves the pretence and the court claim fee?

yours faithfully, 


Not low hanging fruit

NahkoMed

Coupon-mad said:

Dear Sirs, 

ref: rip off PCN number xxxxxxxx

Not low hanging fruit

Haha! Ok I get it, thanks. Arkell v Pressdram and all that...

In all seriousness, does this kind of language not prejudice anything if it does come to a hearing? PAP suggests that we deal "reasonably" with each other. Clearly that's not the case on their side, but does it ever help to take the moral high ground? Just wondering.

Will leave it a bit and reply in this vein though, thanks. Honestly I'm so grateful for your help (in particular) and others, as well as this forum in general. This would have been a nightmare for me otherwise, and now I'm actually starting to enjoy it haha.

Not_A_Hope

I wouldn’t worry about upsetting scammers that demonstrate over and again they have no moral conscience at all. You have asked perfectly valid questions which they are trying to avoid answering. Dial down the sarcasm if you are not comfortable with it but your correspondence is unlikely to be used in evidence. 

Wells19

@NahkoMed Any update on this? Preparing in case my situation leads to a similar path