Capital One credit card Direct Debit payment not debited from Current Account

dreaMer001

On 01 October 2023 I changed my Direct Debit (DD) to pay capital one credit card in Full (full statement balance). Previously, it was set to minimum payment. 

There was confirmation on screen to say it was successful.

I did the above well ahead of my statement date (because we need to see 'confirmation' on statement). My next statement was issued on 22 October 2023. That statement says:

Your Direct Debit payment of £1,306.94 will be taken on or after 14 November 23. If you make additional payments, your Direct Debit will still be taken unless your balance is cleared in full, however we may reduce the amount we collect.

It's 15 November 2023 now and the money still hasn't been taken from my current account. On statement the payment due date is 17 November 2023. I'm worried that the DD won't be deducted and I will be charged late fees, and missed payment recorded on my credit file (then it may become difficult for me to obtain credit in future). I'm aware any mistakes can be corrected later, but my previous experience in doing this (with another provider) was not pleasant at all. 

Should I manually pay the full statement balance today? I checked the Halifax Bank banking App, it shows about five DDs setup, unfortunately Capital One is not listed as one. Could the DD still go through today or tomorrow (even if the Capital One DD is not listed there)?

There's a similar thread here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/37439102/#Comment_37439102

where the OP was charged a £12 late payment fee, although it seems his statement didn't confirm that the payment will be taken by DD and the amount to be debited by DD. 

Nasqueron

If the statement says the due date is the 17th, it'll go then. If it's not taken by say 2pm (my cards are always taken before I wake up in the morning) then you could do a manual payment yes and provided it is paid on the 17th you wouldn't get any late fees. You could always pay the minimum anyway to avoid that chance, at worst it'll put the card in credit (by mistake of course, confusion over the payments dates etc, not done deliberately if bank queries it) which you can resolve easily by spending on the card or asking for a refund.

Belenus

We bank with HSBC and Direct Debits and other debits and credits usually show up as pending a day or two before they are due.

Do you have a Pending Transaction section on your online banking account?

It is odd that the Capital One DD does not show on your list of DDs. Is it possible that you set it up on a different account?

dreaMer001

Belenus said:

We bank with HSBC and Direct Debits and other debits and credits usually show up as pending a day or two before they are due.

Do you have a Pending Transaction section on your online banking account?

It is odd that the Capital One DD does not show on your list of DDs. Is it possible that you set it up on a different account?

Nothing showing up as pending. 

It's not setup on a different account because I amended the existing DD (which was setup to pay minimum). So, I didn't touch the account sort code and account number. At the end of the process, it said 'your payment amount has been updated'.

Just to double check I just logged in to website, it says direct debit can be viewed via app. But I noticed transaction saying:

"DIRECT DEBIT PAYMENT - THANK YOU

£1,306.94"

So  seems it's alreaady paid. Logged into Halifax app, and the money is still sitting in my current account. Still nothing showing as pending. I looked in 'View Upcomming Payments' too. Nothing showing.

To double check account and sort code of current account, checked CapitalOne app. There is an option on there to 'setup a direct debit' but I didn't tap on it just in case it causes further confusion.

But I did refer back to the screenshots I kept when I changed the direct debit amount from minimum to full statement balance and its the same account (not a different account). I can see the last four digits of the account number and sort code on the screenshots.

BTW, when I log in to online banking on Capital One it seems setting up direct debit option is no longer there. It says:

"Make payments on time, without the hassle, by setting up Direct Debit. You can do it in the app.

Alternatively, you can send us a secure message. It can take up to 6 working days for the change to take effect, so please plan for this if your payment is due soon."

When I changed direct debit I did it via online banking. Seems it can only be done via the App now. 

lr1277

I had this with the old Post Office card, especially over a weekend. By Friday or Saturday, the PO system would say thank you for the payment whereas my bank system would not show the debit. Then on Monday the money would be debited from my current account.

dreaMer001

lr1277 said:

I had this with the old Post Office card, especially over a weekend. By Friday or Saturday, the PO system would say thank you for the payment whereas my bank system would not show the debit. Then on Monday the money would be debited from my current account.

I have post office card too. But this is not that card. From recently, I've configured both the web interface and the App single login to handle both cards.

Yes, the scenario you describe is typical when the DD collection date falls on a weekend date. However, my DD collection  this month was on 14 November 2023. My experience has been that providers often say 'on or soon after' espcially to handle weekends. So, if the date falls on a weekend, DD is most probably (or maybe definitely) going to be collected on the next working day.

On capital one online banking and the App for this months "payment" showing as completed it has 'Tuesday, 14 November' beside it. Checked halifax bank app just now. Still not collected. 
I did have look through my previous capital one and halifax bank statements, and here are my results (I've put the day of the week in brackets):

statement date = 22 November 2018 (Thu)

says minimum payment £5 will be taken on or after = 15 December 2018 (Sat)

Cap1 Statement date = 22 December 2018 (Sat) has

payment transaction for £5 GBP with transaction date = 16 December 2018 (Sun)

Halifax bank Statement has that DD payment transaction for £5 with date = 17 December 2018 (Mon)

Above is not conclusive because halifax (and lloyds group generally) tend to date transactions on the next working day where the actual date when the transaction is a weekend day or a bank holiday.

So lets take and example where the 'minimum payment will be taken on or after' was a weekday. I checked all statements and tried to find a date that fell exactly on a Tuesday to mimic this months payment collection date scenario (14 November 2023)

Here is one: 

Statement date = 22 September 2019 (Sun)

says minimum payment £5 will be taken on or after = 15 October 2019 (Tuesday)

Statement date = 22 October 2019 (Tue) has

payment transaction for £5 with transaction date = 15 October 2019 (Tuesday)

Halifax bank statement has that DD payment transaction for £5 with date = 15 October 2019 (Tuesday)

So, going by above example, I should've seen the DD payment transaction for this month's full statement balance on Halifax app or online banking with date 14 November 2023 (Tuesday). I wonder if the DD could be paid today or tomorrow, then somehow makes it in to my bank statement with backdated date? 

Edit: just logged in to cap1 website login. Just below the supposed DD payment it's now showing:

"PAYMENT REVERSAL £1,306.94
Posted on 16 November 2023"

I'm pretty fed up with this 'is payment gonna be claimed via DD or is it not' Game. Going to make minimum payment now.

Funnily enough, the Balance is showing as £0.00. Seems we cannot make payments via website. I will try the App. Hopefull it will allow me to make a payment with £0.00 balance. Fingers (and everything else) crossed!!

dreaMer001

Last month I posted a thread about the Direct Debit (DD) that was setup/amended to pay the full statement balance not being debited:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6485745/capital-one-credit-card-direct-debit-payment-not-debited-from-current-account

After checking the balance repeatedly on the day the DD was due (14 November) and also the next day 15 November (as the statement says 'taken on or AFTER') and seeing the balance at £0.00 indicating that the Direct Debit had been debited from my Halifax Current Account, suddenly a transaction appeared late at night (on 15 November) saying 'payment reversal' for the amount of £1,306.94. It said 'Posted on 16 November 2023'.

So, on 17 November 2023 (the payment due date), I paid the balance £1293.89 using debit card with multiple transactions of £500.01, £500.01, and £293.87 (as I had already paid the minimum payment of £13.05 to play if safe a couple of days ago heeding the advice of a forum member).

The 3x debit card transactions appeared on the account around Monday 20 November with date of transaction showing 17 November, with the minimum payment of £13.05 appearing with date 16 November (as it was paid one day before the 3x transactions).

I didn't receive any information from Capital One about the Direct Debit failing until 16 November 2023 when I received two emails. One of the emails has subject:

"Important information about your payments" and says:

"Your Direct Debit has been cancelled. This means we'll stop automatically taking payments for your Capital One card.

Check your next statement for information about your payments

If you have an outstanding balance, you need to find a new way to make your monthly payments.

How to pay

Set up a new Direct Debit

You can do this in the app or by calling us on 03444 812 812.

If your Direct Debit was cancelled because you're on a payment arrangement with us, you'll need to wait for this to end before you can set up a new Direct Debit.

Pay on the app, online or call 03444 812 812

Remember to allow two working days for your payment to clear."

the other email has subject "myName, you still need to make a payment" and says: 

"We didn't get your latest payment

Dear myName,

Unfortunately, the latest payment to your Capital One account failed to go through when your bank or building society tried to process it.

To fix this, you should pay at least the minimum amount that appears on your latest statement, as soon as possible (if you haven't already).

You can pay by Direct Debit, in the Capital One app, via your online account, at a local bank or by phone on 03444 812 812. Find out more about the different ways you can pay on our website."

I've not received any information from Halifax Bank. 

Who is my first port of call to ask what happened/complain? I'd want this investigated, as it could be something system related. i.e. maybe there is an issue with Halifax bank not handling amended Direct Debits properly. Maybe it's Capital One that can't handle amended Direct Debits. Either way best to raise it. I have a feeling that both places will start pointing the finger at each other, so was wondering if there is a concrete port of call to complaint to (under the Direct Debit Guarantee or otherwise) when it comes to DD falling through. 

p.s. apologies. quote feature is still not working, so I'm having to use quotation marks making it a rather lengthy Original Posting (OP).

MorningcoffeeIV

Start with the cred card.

born_again

Would have better to stay in old thread.
Who did you amend the DD with? As that is your point of contact. Which should have been CC provider.

One thing you have not mentioned on the reversal, is were there enough funds in the Current Account to cover the debit?

dreaMer001

born_again said:

Would have better to stay in old thread.
Who did you amend the DD with? As that is your point of contact. Which should have been CC provider.

One thing you have not mentioned on the reversal, is were there enough funds in the Current Account to cover the debit?

I always setup and amend on the cc provider side. Are you sure it can be done on the bank side too?

I wouldn't say 'not my fault' if there was not enough funds to cover the debit! Anyway, even if there wasn't enough funds, halifax wouldn've informed me a Direct Debit was returned due to insufficient funds! One time, a while ago I seem to recall them contacting me via SMS to tell me there was insufficient funds in account to pay a DD, ensure there is sufficient funds before  x:xx PM as the DD will be retried later. 

Seems Capital One is notorious for Direct Debit problems since far back as year 2010. I've just come across this thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2647425/capital-one-direct-debit-problem

OP says Barclays told him/her/them that Capital One had not sought permission to collect the DD. Other members experiencing unpaid DD's, charges due to the missed payments etc. They've even switched to manual payment due to the problems. 

[Deleted User]

dreaMer001 said:

born_again said:

Would have better to stay in old thread.
Who did you amend the DD with? As that is your point of contact. Which should have been CC provider.

One thing you have not mentioned on the reversal, is were there enough funds in the Current Account to cover the debit?

I always setup and amend on the cc provider side. Are you sure it can be done on the bank side too?

I wouldn't say 'not my fault' if there was not enough funds to cover the debit! Anyway, even if there wasn't enough funds, halifax wouldn've informed me a Direct Debit was returned due to insufficient funds! One time, a while ago I seem to recall them contacting me via SMS to tell me there was insufficient funds in account to pay a DD, ensure there is sufficient funds before  x:xx PM as the DD will be retried later. 

Seems Capital One is notorious for Direct Debit problems since far back as year 2010. I've just come across this thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2647425/capital-one-direct-debit-problem

OP says Barclays told him/her/them that Capital One had not sought permission to collect the DD. Other members experiencing unpaid DD's, charges due to the missed payments etc. They've even switched to manual payment due to the problems. 

I always set up any DD from the bank account it will be debited from.
It's your current account that releases it on to the receiving account.