Uber cleaning fee question

Okell

sparkyrob said:

Thanks for all of the responses. For those asking about the woman's condition, she was just very drunk but in a state to provide her address. A doctor actually passed by with two friends while we were trying to get a taxi, checked her out, and said that she was inebriated and didn't need hospitalising...

So that's ok then?  You were already trying to get a taxi before some random person off the street claiming to be a doctor said she was OK and that she was only "inebriated".  How do you know they were a doctor?  Strange you didn't mention that advice in your first post...

I'm surprised that you were able to satisfy yourselves that she was in a state to provide her correct address when you originally said:  "On Saturday night, my partner and I found a woman slumped on the pavement in London. She was not in a good way, was vomiting and could barely hold herself up in a seated position...".

You did very well to get a recognisable address out of her.

This was a vulnerable woman whose care you were entrusting to an Uber driver you didn't know - and you were already trying to get a taxi for her before any "doctor" passed any opinion on her.  As I said in my earlier post, you should have phoned for the police or an ambulance - not an Uber.

I think you're lucky that the only thing you need to worry about is the Uber cleanup bill.

RefluentBeans

Fwiw - I think you were attempting to do the right thing. Unfortunately, as others have said, there is a difference between wiping up vomit of your own child in your own car that you use only for personal reasons, and a taxi driver. I have been using Uber over many years and can’t recall one that smelt of vomit (even when catching them early mornings and very late nights). I’m sure if you were in an Uber that stunk of vomit you would complain to Uber, and as would most people - so the driver wouldn’t take the risk of a quick wipe down job. 

The likelihood is that the taxi driver did have to get the car valeted, and at that time of the day, it may have been quite expensive to get it done/the driver had to wipe it off and get it professionally cleaned in the morning. The driver should be compensated for this, as there was loss of earnings and there was a charge that they would have to pay. 

Ultimately the question is who should pay. I think the best option is to explain the situation to Uber and see if they are willing to cover the fee in your behalf. I hope in that situation they still pay the driver, as the driver shouldn’t be out of pocket. But ultimately someone should pay. And looking it purely factually, you ordered a taxi for a person who could barely sit up, and presumably had been throwing up. There is a good chance that they would throw up in the taxi. So Uber covering the fee would be a Good Samaritan sort of thing. 

Try not to let this sour you to help someone in the future. You still attempted to do the right thing. I think though, as others have said, when you see someone lying in the street, clearly drunk, and unable to hold their own weight even when sitting, the best place for them is under the eyes of medical staff. You don’t know how that person got to be left by themselves, or what they’ve taken, or if they’ve been spiked. A doctor (or medical students) walking past will likely tell you if they are going to die in the next 10 mins, but not much more. An on duty police officer/paramedic will be better placed to help. If you can’t find a police officer or paramedic then calling 999 and staying with the person until a member of emergency services comes would be better. Big city centres like London will have a team in place on busy nights to deal with drunk people, so you won’t be taking away from other emergencies. At that point they will take over and you know they will have gotten the help they need. 

sparkyrob

RefluentBeans said:

Fwiw - I think you were attempting to do the right thing. Unfortunately, as others have said, there is a difference between wiping up vomit of your own child in your own car that you use only for personal reasons, and a taxi driver. I have been using Uber over many years and can’t recall one that smelt of vomit (even when catching them early mornings and very late nights). I’m sure if you were in an Uber that stunk of vomit you would complain to Uber, and as would most people - so the driver wouldn’t take the risk of a quick wipe down job. 

The likelihood is that the taxi driver did have to get the car valeted, and at that time of the day, it may have been quite expensive to get it done/the driver had to wipe it off and get it professionally cleaned in the morning. The driver should be compensated for this, as there was loss of earnings and there was a charge that they would have to pay. 

Ultimately the question is who should pay. I think the best option is to explain the situation to Uber and see if they are willing to cover the fee in your behalf. I hope in that situation they still pay the driver, as the driver shouldn’t be out of pocket. But ultimately someone should pay. And looking it purely factually, you ordered a taxi for a person who could barely sit up, and presumably had been throwing up. There is a good chance that they would throw up in the taxi. So Uber covering the fee would be a Good Samaritan sort of thing. 

Try not to let this sour you to help someone in the future. You still attempted to do the right thing. I think though, as others have said, when you see someone lying in the street, clearly drunk, and unable to hold their own weight even when sitting, the best place for them is under the eyes of medical staff. You don’t know how that person got to be left by themselves, or what they’ve taken, or if they’ve been spiked. A doctor (or medical students) walking past will likely tell you if they are going to die in the next 10 mins, but not much more. An on duty police officer/paramedic will be better placed to help. If you can’t find a police officer or paramedic then calling 999 and staying with the person until a member of emergency services comes would be better. Big city centres like London will have a team in place on busy nights to deal with drunk people, so you won’t be taking away from other emergencies. At that point they will take over and you know they will have gotten the help they need. 

Yes, in hindsight calling an ambulance would have been a better option. Certainly something I would do in future (though hopefully not something I'll need to)! Thanks for taking the time to respond considerately, unlike the wildly judgemental poster above you. The internet can be a lovely place, but that's what the Ignore button is for I guess. 

Sadly Uber do not do Good Samaritan refunds. Nor it seems are they willing to either provide the fee table for cleaning charges, or proof of getting the car cleaned. All other aspects of this aside, and looking solely at their practices, I'm wondering how this sits from a legal perspective. With no published fee table, they can charge any amount presumably with no oversight. With no proof of cleaning, you have the vomit fraud situation that was reported on. Who actually regulates this industry?

RefluentBeans

sparkyrob said:

RefluentBeans said:

Fwiw - I think you were attempting to do the right thing. Unfortunately, as others have said, there is a difference between wiping up vomit of your own child in your own car that you use only for personal reasons, and a taxi driver. I have been using Uber over many years and can’t recall one that smelt of vomit (even when catching them early mornings and very late nights). I’m sure if you were in an Uber that stunk of vomit you would complain to Uber, and as would most people - so the driver wouldn’t take the risk of a quick wipe down job. 

The likelihood is that the taxi driver did have to get the car valeted, and at that time of the day, it may have been quite expensive to get it done/the driver had to wipe it off and get it professionally cleaned in the morning. The driver should be compensated for this, as there was loss of earnings and there was a charge that they would have to pay. 

Ultimately the question is who should pay. I think the best option is to explain the situation to Uber and see if they are willing to cover the fee in your behalf. I hope in that situation they still pay the driver, as the driver shouldn’t be out of pocket. But ultimately someone should pay. And looking it purely factually, you ordered a taxi for a person who could barely sit up, and presumably had been throwing up. There is a good chance that they would throw up in the taxi. So Uber covering the fee would be a Good Samaritan sort of thing. 

Try not to let this sour you to help someone in the future. You still attempted to do the right thing. I think though, as others have said, when you see someone lying in the street, clearly drunk, and unable to hold their own weight even when sitting, the best place for them is under the eyes of medical staff. You don’t know how that person got to be left by themselves, or what they’ve taken, or if they’ve been spiked. A doctor (or medical students) walking past will likely tell you if they are going to die in the next 10 mins, but not much more. An on duty police officer/paramedic will be better placed to help. If you can’t find a police officer or paramedic then calling 999 and staying with the person until a member of emergency services comes would be better. Big city centres like London will have a team in place on busy nights to deal with drunk people, so you won’t be taking away from other emergencies. At that point they will take over and you know they will have gotten the help they need. 

Yes, in hindsight calling an ambulance would have been a better option. Certainly something I would do in future (though hopefully not something I'll need to)! Thanks for taking the time to respond considerately, unlike the wildly judgemental poster above you. The internet can be a lovely place, but that's what the Ignore button is for I guess. 

Sadly Uber do not do Good Samaritan refunds. Nor it seems are they willing to either provide the fee table for cleaning charges, or proof of getting the car cleaned. All other aspects of this aside, and looking solely at their practices, I'm wondering how this sits from a legal perspective. With no published fee table, they can charge any amount presumably with no oversight. With no proof of cleaning, you have the vomit fraud situation that was reported on. Who actually regulates this industry?

I had a similar issue a few years ago with Uber where they claimed that the cab me and my friends had gotten had someone throw up in it. It was a food festival with free bar, and we were tipsy. But no one threw up, of which I am 100% sure. I then got met with a stonewall after they just took the money from my account without informing me, and didn’t send a receipt for the charge (I mean a normal Uber receipt with a line item for £90 for the cleaning charge). I contested this, and looked at the photo and the driver appeared to have used a photo from a different time (dark outside, when the time we got dropped off was 4pm in July - very much a sunny day). 

This is to say Uber was very loosey goosey with the charges, and their issuance of a receipt. I complained on the grounds of the facts that they didn’t send an invoice for the charge nor did they send a receipt. I had to specifically ask why I had gotten a charge, which as far as I was aware is illegal. I don’t think Uber legally have to provide you an invoice from the dry cleaners. What you can ask for is a copy of the original image submitted by the driver - which likely was taken in a phone and has a load of meta data stored in it. They more than likely won’t provide it to you, probably going along the line of data protection etc. 

I would keep protesting the charge personally - if you don’t believe the person threw up in the taxi then the driver is trying to make a quick bit of cash. In that case, they should be removed from the app and shouldn’t get any money. If you do believe that the passenger had thrown up in the cab, then the driver should get some money.

In terms of regulations, taxis would still be licensed by the local council. This doesn’t necessarily mean your local council - especially if in the cusp between councils. You can still complain to them, but unfortunately Uber isn’t a taxi company (as they insist) - they just mediate a transaction between a freelance taxi driver and a customer - a marketplace of drivers. As such they skirt regulations, but instead shift responsibly directly onto their drivers. In such case I wouldn’t know who would be legally liable to have a challenge in court - Uber or the taxi driver themselves. 

Hopefully the law catches up with gig workers and companies like Uber - as they do certainly seem to be able to have their cake and eat it too in a lot of cases. 

sparkyrob

Uber has actually provided two photos of the back seat with some vomit on it. Given her state, I have no reason to doubt it was from the passenger. I am not looking to challenge the driver here (although it's entirely possible, and likely, they cleaned it themselves), but question what Uber is being overseen by. A £110 fee is an arbitrary amount, which does not appear to be documented on their own site. Similarly, there is opportunity for drivers to submit claims without proof, and unless there is transparency about the process, it's open to abuse. It might be worth me contacting Greenwich council but I suspect it will be like shouting into a void. I think I'm going to have to write this one off. 

jon81uk

sparkyrob said:

Uber has actually provided two photos of the back seat with some vomit on it. Given her state, I have no reason to doubt it was from the passenger. I am not looking to challenge the driver here (although it's entirely possible, and likely, they cleaned it themselves), but question what Uber is being overseen by. A £110 fee is an arbitrary amount, which does not appear to be documented on their own site. Similarly, there is opportunity for drivers to submit claims without proof, and unless there is transparency about the process, it's open to abuse. It might be worth me contacting Greenwich council but I suspect it will be like shouting into a void. I think I'm going to have to write this one off. 

If it was Greenwich then TfL would license the minicab driver registered with Uber. 
For a taxi it is a set charge of £60 for soiling. But minicab fees are not regulated in the same way as black taxi.
Taxis & minicabs - Transport for London (tfl.gov.uk)

Grumpy_chap

sparkyrob said:

I am not looking to challenge the driver here (although it's entirely possible, and likely, they cleaned it themselves), 

Does it matter whether the driver cleaned the detritus themselves or engaged a third party?
There is also an impact of lost working time for which there would not be an external receipt in any case.

The fee here was £110.
Someone earlier in the thread posted a rate card at £200 (IIRC) and the post just now indicates a rate card at £60.
The amount charged seems reasonable in that context.

sparkyrob

Grumpy_chap said:

sparkyrob said:

I am not looking to challenge the driver here (although it's entirely possible, and likely, they cleaned it themselves), 

Does it matter whether the driver cleaned the detritus themselves or engaged a third party?
There is also an impact of lost working time for which there would not be an external receipt in any case.

The fee here was £110.
Someone earlier in the thread posted a rate card at £200 (IIRC) and the post just now indicates a rate card at £60.
The amount charged seems reasonable in that context.

It matters because Uber have stated on their site that drivers need to get a receipt... Presumably to stop fraud? Publishing the rate matters so that customers are aware of what they might end up landed with. 

born_again

Could it be that UBER do have a receipt & that is why they are charging the amount they have quoted?

Do they have to provide a copy to the customer?

End of the day it is what it is, not point arguing on here as no one can force them to refund.
But has the person you sent off refunded for the uber?

sparkyrob

born_again said:

Could it be that UBER do have a receipt & that is why they are charging the amount they have quoted?

Do they have to provide a copy to the customer?

End of the day it is what it is, not point arguing on here as no one can force them to refund.
But has the person you sent off refunded for the uber?

They have not. Hey ho.

Of course Uber aren't obligated to do anything, but if consumers don't know their rights because they aren't published, and it isn't called out, it's just a slow erosion. Ah well!