Money Moral Dilemma: Should I ask for money if people charge their electric cars when they visit?

LightFlare

MacPingu1986 said:

LightFlare said:

Maybe if the shoe was on the other foot - the home owner could ask the EV owner if they could just borrow their battery and connect up to do a load of washing or tumble drying 

After all - don’t all EV owners get electricity for 7ppu - so they would in effect be helping their friends save money

I've literally been round at my-in laws this week, got soaked in some rain running a quick errand without a coat on and they tumble dried my shirt for me - it's just simple easy stuff we do for those we care about.

If a friend was round at mine in soaking wet clothes I think it'd be pretty unreasonable to *not* help them out.

not sure if you have misunderstood my slightly tongue in cheek comment.

The point I am trying to make is that if its ok to expect to be able to plug your car into the house supply for a cheeky top up is it not also reasonable for the house to ask you to plug in so they can use their appliances from the battery ?

Chances are the EV owner is getting their energy cheaper than a none EV household (or so they all tell us) so its actually a very MSE thing to do to offer your cheap battery power to the household -- you might get lucky and they offer you £5 as well

misimp

Herzlos

Of course I would allow them to BUY petrol at cost

I wouldn't, however, be happy for them to fill up and pay me what THEY decided

In our case they eventually offered to just have a couple of hours top up to keep them going and would leave 50p...which didn't amuse wifey

In response to those who intimate that people should be willing to subsidise visitors in order to encourage them to visit again I really don't follow the logic. In that case are they suggesting that if the visitor has an icv then we should pay their fuel costs...or if they don't own a vehicle we should pay their rail/bus fares??

misimp

MacPingu1986 said:

LightFlare said:

Maybe if the shoe was on the other foot - the home owner could ask the EV owner if they could just borrow their battery and connect up to do a load of washing or tumble drying 

After all - don’t all EV owners get electricity for 7ppu - so they would in effect be helping their friends save money

I've literally been round at my-in laws this week, got soaked in some rain running a quick errand without a coat on and they tumble dried my shirt for me - it's just simple easy stuff we do for those we care about.

If a friend was round at mine in soaking wet clothes I think it'd be pretty unreasonable to *not* help them out.

Totally different thing

In your (non) anology an unforeseen event occurs results  in an unforseeable outcome which anyone would help out
whereas the need to acquire power to get a vehicle from A to B is entirely forseeable and should be planned for without expecting other people to provide

MacPingu1986

misimp said:

Totally different thing

"In your (non) anology an unforeseen event occurs results  in an unforseeable outcome which anyone would help out whereas the need to acquire power to get a vehicle from A to B is entirely forseeable and should be planned for without expecting other people to provide"

"In response to those who intimate that people should be willing to subsidise visitors in order to encourage them to visit again I really don't follow the logic. In that case are they suggesting that if the visitor has an icv then we should pay their fuel costs...or if they don't own a vehicle we should pay their rail/bus fares??"

The analogy is that most of us help our friends and family out with small stuff because... that's just how we treat our friends and family - you do little favors (whether events are foreseeable or not) for each other because they're people that you care about.

It's nice when a friend decides to spend time and money travelling a long way to see me, so you thank them where you can with small favors. If a friend coming to see me without a car gets the train to a nearby station and asked if I could pick them up, I would, and I'd do so:

• without charging them £2.00 in my incurred fuel costs;
• without explaining that the journey was "foreseeable" and that they should have planned ahead and booked a taxi;
• without lecturing them that I was subsidizing their visits;

Ditto I benefit from "subsidization" from time to time, perhaps a local friend will give me a lift if my other half has the car, maybe they offer me a beer or a coffee if I come over to visit (without presenting a sum-up terminal for the incurred costs of visit). 

Sometimes you're slightly up, sometimes you're slightly down. They're your friends and family - it doesn't matter.*

* - Unless the person is in *serious* financial difficulty.

prettyandfluffy

I don't have an EV because of the poor infrastructure and associated hassle, but if I did:
A planned journey to visit family or friends - I would factor in stopping to charge if necessary, and plan my journey accordingly.  An emergency or unplanned visit where perhaps I set off without the car being fully charged or didn't have time to stop - I would either ask and offer to pay or use a nearby charging point.  

misimp

Mac

You are getting away - far away - from the topic

I willingly put friends and family up on a regular basis. I also ferry them around on days out, to restaurants, to pubs whilst their EV sits in my driveway

I wouldn't ask for or expect (nor have I ever been offered) any payment, petrol money for their stays

I don't think wifey is being unreasonable to draw the line at paying their fuel costs

Perhaps we are both miserable gits

Goudy

MacPingu1986 said:

misimp said:

Totally different thing

"In your (non) anology an unforeseen event occurs results  in an unforseeable outcome which anyone would help out whereas the need to acquire power to get a vehicle from A to B is entirely forseeable and should be planned for without expecting other people to provide"

"In response to those who intimate that people should be willing to subsidise visitors in order to encourage them to visit again I really don't follow the logic. In that case are they suggesting that if the visitor has an icv then we should pay their fuel costs...or if they don't own a vehicle we should pay their rail/bus fares??"

Sometimes you're slightly up, sometimes you're slightly down. They're your friends and family - it doesn't matter.*

* - Unless the person is in *serious* financial difficulty.

This is something I asked earlier without any reply.

How would you know?
Would it be embarrassing for both if you asked if they were before asking to charge?
Would some feel obliged to offer or agree if they were in difficulty?

I also asked if how they pay for the electricity makes a difference.
Would you try and find out if they were on a pre pay meter first, you could leave them short late at night for instance, and if knowing, would that make a difference to an offer or request to charge, paying for it or not? 

Small stuff to some might actually be quite large stuff for others without knowing.
We are after all in a bit of a cost of living crisis.

As we seem to be in the realms that this type of charging being mainly convenient and cost effective (compared to on street chargers) rather than necessity, is it worth it on the whole?

Is there a chance you might get the go ahead to charge and then not get invited back because everyone was too polite?

It seems the EV has created a gap in the normal social conventions, which I presume why this tread was started.

I have already stated I can't offer it because of where I live, but I wouldn't ask to do it either, paying for it or not.

I would like to think my family and friends would agree no matter what position they might be in due to their nature, but I just wouldn't want to make them make that decision particularly when it isn't truly necessary.

If the situation can be avoided, I would avoid it and everyone remains happy.

MeteredOut

It seems the EV has created a gap in the normal social conventions, which I presume why this tread was started.

I disagree. This is a hypothetical scenario posted by MSE to attract hits. Aka click-bait.

And it worked.

Where it does happen in the real world, undoubtedly the friends/families work things out between them without even the tiniest bit of the drama that has been suggested would happen in this thread.

Cyclamen

Like anything it all depends on your own values, relationships and financial situation as well as their values and financial situation.

I cant talk about Electric cars and charging so I look at it from a different angle, with experiences from my family.

As a low income student visiting loved ones the other end of the country they would often 'fill my car up' for the return journey or stick a few bags of food shop in the boot. 

Now I am a non driver I offer to chip in or pay taxi cost for friends i know are financially struggling from the train station to mine. I also sent family money to stick on their electric card when struggling and have given money for petrol so they can get to work etc.  (motorbikes so a bit different to car)

As a younger person driving on a night out (non drinker) my friends would either buy my drinks all night or chip in a few pounds.

Then there were the friends that always asked me to drive, expected me to always travel to them or be the driver for long journeys and never offered anything.. it got pricey.

So the equivalent of charging an electric car when visiting doesnt seem either right or wrong.. to me its a case by case thing.  If I were short of money i would say 'money was a bit tight'  but equally id try help if i could if they were struggling.  

So I would want to know there was a 'balance' in the relationship.. not just are we spending equal money as that is less important but a balance with give and take in friendship. 

Can they afford to cover the electric costs or can you or can you both?
Is it a regular thing?
Do you need the same rule for everyone?
Are other costs, the persons travel time, etc a burden also. eg if they buy dinner or have travelled a long time and you dont often travel to them etc.. 

Herzlos

misimp said:

Herzlos

Of course I would allow them to BUY petrol at cost

I wouldn't, however, be happy for them to fill up and pay me what THEY decided

But they are essentially the same thing. You can calculate pretty accurately what it costs to provide the fuel; it's basically (power consumed [as told by car or smart meter] x kwh rate [as on your tariff] x 1.2 [to account for efficiency loss)

misimp said:

I willingly put friends and family up on a regular basis. I also ferry them around on days out, to restaurants, to pubs whilst their EV sits in my driveway

I wouldn't ask for or expect (nor have I ever been offered) any payment, petrol money for their stays

I don't think wifey is being unreasonable to draw the line at paying their fuel costs

I don't think they are logically any different - you spend money so your guests can visit you, whether that's in heating, water, driving, food, wine, etc. Adding a few quid for a car charge shouldn't be that big a deal. It's probably a rounding error in the total expense of the visit.

So yeah, I think you're both being a bit miserly.