Barclays £175 switch offer - new customers only, Nov 1 - 30 2023

Nasqueron

DJSINGH said:

I have just done £200 to premium bonds. Will this track for November for the £10 cashback? How long has it taken those who did a payment to NS&I?

The app seems to update periodically, mine was 18th, 23rd and 27th (but didn't include the spend for payments processed today even though they were made last week).

Zopa_Trooper

Nasqueron said:

Zopa_Trooper said:

Nasqueron said:

Johnny-Cage said:

Take it soon as you get the £175 you can drop blue rewards 

You can though if you were going to do it anyway, you can spend £200 this and next month on debit card and get £10 cashback each month - worth doing that and cancelling in January if you were going to spend anyway

You get the cashback for spending £200 a few days after the transaction (mine was 5) so spend the money on the 1st, you should have it by the 8th available to redeem so no need to wait until the end of the month.

If you spend £200 in one go yes but not everyone does it that way. As of this morning, I have a pending of £6.82 as the purchases I made on Friday and Saturday only processed today and aren't on the total yet. My point was more that rather than switching and immediately dropping the blue rewards after getting the bonus, it's a simple £20 over 2 months provided you spend the £400. My December ones will be done over 2 weekends of shopping as I don't have £200 knocking around just to spend on NI savings (as an example of a qualifying transaction mentioned earlier).

Okay. I am taking the grand kids on holiday next year, paying by Direct Debit. I just knocked £200 off that in November to get the £10 back, will do the same in December. £20 off the holiday, every little helps.

AmityNeon

masonic said:

AmityNeon said:

masonic said:

AmityNeon said:

masonic said:

AmityNeon said:

Zanderman said:

CRISPIANNE3 said:

Decided to take the plunge today and apply for the Barclays current account via the their app. It was approved straight away and then allowed me to apply for the Blue rewards and again all opened immediately.

I have the two dd's in place but will not pay out again until 8 and 20 December. The switch has been confirmed as being the 5 December. I am hoping they may offer some grace and not charge the £5.00 for November as I have just joined. Fingers crossed! I know with Lloyds when I applied for their Club account this was the case and waived the £3 fee.

They don't take the £5 fee in the first month. They take on the 2nd of the second month onwards.

The first month being November, so that means the £5 fee will be taken in December, but there aren't enough days in November now to ensure two direct debits will pay out to earn the £5 reward in December to offset the fee. A chat with support can result in a goodwill gesture of £5 though.

The reason they don't charge in the first month is in case one cannot benefit from all of the rewards in that month. So I am surprised they don't simply point out that the December fee is offset by the rewards earned in December. But if they are willing to relent...

Considering both the reward and the fee are paid on the same day, and the reward pertains to earnings from the previous month, it's reasonable to assume the fee also covers the previous month; earnings are obviously paid in arrears, and the account fee is equally charged in arrears. It would be underhanded for Barclays to then suggest the first fee is offset by the next month's reward payment when the second account fee is also simultaneously charged. If Barclays also charged for the account-opening month (e.g. on the first day), that could lead to customers being charged for two months of fees before their first reward payment offsets the third account fee.

The problem lies with their policy having no regard for the length of the first month resulting in accounts opened later in the month potentially forever net negative. Mention the fairer policies of Lloyds/NatWest/RBS/Santander surrounding the timing of when the initial fee is charged, where grace periods of at least a full month are in place, and Barclays suddenly feels rather guilty charging £5 for an account that has been open for barely a week.

The fee is charged in advance, but the reward is paid in arrears, so if you join at the end of November, qualify in December, but leave Blue Rewards before the end of December, having paid just one fee, you would still get the reward payment in January, but not pay a fee in January. Likewise you'd be paid in February if you left during January after paying the requisite DDs, and so on. Overall that means the fee always entitles you to a month to earn rewards even when one doesn't qualify in the non-fee paying first month. Getting any rewards in the first month is therefore a freebie and under the T&C they are not under any obligation to credit them as you have not met all of the eligibility requirements (which include payment of a £5 fee in that month).

I must say, of all the bank incentives I've come to know of, Blue Rewards is the least well understood, both amongst customers and apparently also bank staff. Yet the T&C are not that difficult to understand in my view.

How can you still receive a reward payment in January if you left Blue Rewards in December?

If we or you cancel your Barclays Blue Rewards:

• We’ll close your Blue Rewards Wallet and you’ll stop earning rewards
• We’ll transfer your available rewards balance back to you
• You will no longer be eligible for any pending rewards that have not yet been shown in your Blue Rewards Wallet

The only occurrence of the term 'pending' in the entirety of the Blue Rewards Terms and Conditions is in that single bullet point. Rewards that are 'shown' in the Blue Rewards Wallet are those that are available to redeem; there is no section for showing pending rewards that are not yet available to redeem. Once Blue Rewards is cancelled, the Wallet is closed, any available rewards balace is transferred, and any pending rewards are lost.

Whether the fee is charged in advance or in arrears is down to a matter of interpretation, but ultimately irrelevant. Based on the current terms, the monthly fee is quite simply, charged.

[You will need to] pay the £5 monthly fee. We’ll take this from your nominated current account on the second working day of the month. The first monthly fee will be taken in the month after you join Barclays Blue Rewards on the second working day of the month.

When and how you’ll receive your rewards

We’ll add the rewards you have earned into your Blue Rewards Wallet on the second working day of each month. Payments will start on the second working day of the calendar month that follows...

The first fee is taken in the second month; the first possible reward payment is in the second month. Indeed, this is simple to understand, and it results in unfavourable conditions for customers joining the scheme later in a calendar month, i.e. net negative in comparison to joining earlier. It's not that Blue Rewards is the least well understood; it's merely the least fair relative to the reward schemes offered by competitors.

They do say that they will close the Blue Rewards Wallet if you leave, but they do not say when they will do that. The natural time to do so is on the second working day of the following month, after rewards previously earned are added, giving significance to the comment "If you do this [cancel] before 5pm on the last day of the month, we won’t charge the next monthly fee." If payment was in arrears, then it would be the current monthly fee, not the next one. I hope we agree that if someone were to leave Blue Rewards on 30th November, they wouldn't be debited a £5 fee on 4th December. So the terms are only internally consistent in this section if the fee is charged in advance.

You're suggesting the first 'month' (which practically has a range of 2-36 days) is a freebie and that monthly account fees are charged in advance to cover the month in which they are charged. You assume that if someone leaves Blue Rewards by the last day of the month, not only will the 'next' monthly fee not be charged by Barclays, but the customer's Blue Rewards Wallet will also remain open until the second working day of the following month to allow for previously earned rewards to be added; a reward payment without a concomitant monthly fee.

I'll address the 'pending' term first:

masonic said:

'Pending' isn't used in association with the standard rewards, but you can have pending cashback rewards, which may be what they are referring to as being forfeit if still pending at the time they close the wallet. Rewards other than cashback rewards are referred elsewhere as being 'earned', which suggests an obligation to pay on their part, and differentiates 'earning' a reward from having it 'added' to the wallet, which is a separate action.

The term 'pending' was also present in the Blue Rewards Terms and Conditions between 27 April 2023 and 18th September 2023, in exactly the same clause, before cashback rewards were introduced in the present scheme. It's clear to me that if rewards earned have not yet been added into the Blue Rewards Wallet (and therefore not 'shown'), they are considered pending and subject to potential loss.

Consider the following clause in the cancellation terms:

When you can close Barclays Blue Rewards

You can cancel your Barclays Blue Rewards at any time either through Online Banking or with the Barclays app. If you do this before 5pm on the last day of the month, we won’t charge the next monthly fee. If you cancel within the first 14 days of receiving these Additional Conditions and you have already paid a monthly fee, we’ll refund the fee, unless you have already received any rewards into the Blue Rewards Wallet.

Assuming your interpretation is correct (where the first month is a freebie and the monthly fee is charged in advance), here are two possible contrasting scenarios:

1. A customer joins Blue Rewards on 15th November. Within two weeks, up to 29th November, the customer manages to earn the Loyalty Reward (£5) from paying out two direct debits. They decide to cancel Blue Rewards on 30th November (before 5pm), 15 days after joining. Their Blue Rewards Wallet is kept open by Barclays until 4th December to allow the £5 Loyalty Reward to be added, after which the available reward balance is transferred to the customer and the Wallet is closed. The 'next monthly fee' is not charged, so the customer is net positive by £5. This supports the first month being a freebie.
2. A customer joins Blue Rewards on 20th November. By 29th November, the customer manages to earn the Loyalty Reward (£5) from paying out two direct debits. On 4th December, the £5 Loyalty Reward is added to their Blue Rewards Wallet, and the customer redeems the available reward balance. The first £5 monthly fee is also taken from the customer's associated current account. They decide to cancel Blue Rewards on 4th December, within the first 14 days since joining the scheme. The monthly fee is not refunded, so the customer is net neutral. This does not support the first month being a freebie.

In the second scenario, it's clear that the monthly fee is being charged specifically because rewards were added into the Blue Rewards Wallet. The first month is not a freebie. Where the monthly fee is charged in arrears, and there is no assumption that Barclays will keep the Blue Rewards Wallet open for 'pending' rewards to be added in the following month, then the first scenario changes to the customer being net neutral.

masonic said:

If the alternative interpretation was correct, then, as it would be impossible for some to earn Rewards in the first month, they ought to be waiving the fee for anyone who wasn't a member for a full calendar month (i.e. what I thought they were already doing). I agree with you that if that is the interpretation they are using, then this is unfair (and in my view somewhat misleading). If that is indeed the interpretation they apply to my usage of Blue Rewards, a complaint will swiftly be winging its way to them from me on 3rd January.

I got my fee waived as I was expecting practices similar to Lloyds, Nationwide, NatWest, RBS and Santander, where at least a full statement month passes before the first fee is taken, so the benefits of the account are immediate (whether packaged benefits or earning cashback/rewards) and then paid for in arrears.

In April 2022, the monthly fee for Blue Rewards increased from £4 to £5, and the Loyalty Reward decreased from £7 to £5. How many of us here cancelled Blue Rewards back in March 2022? Did anyone receive a reward payment in April 2022 without a concomitant monthly fee?

Zopa_Trooper

I think I'm just going to have to lose the £5, can't see a way round it now. I was going to switch to the coop after the two direct debits come out in December but it looks like there will be no point in waiting. Never mind. Already had my £175, plus £10 cashback and I'll get another £10 in December. So £195 - £5 = £190. Not too shabby.

Clicker9180

So my two DDs were finally set up on the burner account and show up in online banking. But no payments will be taken out until mid-December. Is that good enough to switch to Barclays and get the £175?

Johnny-Cage

Clicker9180 said:

So my two DDs were finally set up on the burner account and show up in online banking. But no payments will be taken out until mid-December. Is that good enough to switch to Barclays and get the £175?

Yes plenty have been paid out already without DD’s being taken 

masonic

AmityNeon said:

A customer joins Blue Rewards on 20th November. By 29th November, the customer manages to earn the Loyalty Reward (£5) from paying out two direct debits. On 4th December, the £5 Loyalty Reward is added to their Blue Rewards Wallet, and the customer redeems the available reward balance. The first £5 monthly fee is also taken from the customer's associated current account. They decide to cancel Blue Rewards on 4th December, within the first 14 days since joining the scheme. The monthly fee is not refunded, so the customer is net neutral. This does not support the first month being a freebie.

In the second scenario, it's clear that the monthly fee is being charged specifically because rewards were added into the Blue Rewards Wallet. The first month is not a freebie. Where the monthly fee is charged in arrears, and there is no assumption that Barclays will keep the Blue Rewards Wallet open for 'pending' rewards to be added in the following month, then the first scenario changes to the customer being net neutral.

This is a very good point and convinces me the fee must therefore be charged in arrears (sorry @Zopa_Trooper, but I think the CS person you spoke to must have been wrong)

AmityNeon said:

masonic said:

If the alternative interpretation was correct, then, as it would be impossible for some to earn Rewards in the first month, they ought to be waiving the fee for anyone who wasn't a member for a full calendar month (i.e. what I thought they were already doing). I agree with you that if that is the interpretation they are using, then this is unfair (and in my view somewhat misleading). If that is indeed the interpretation they apply to my usage of Blue Rewards, a complaint will swiftly be winging its way to them from me on 3rd January.

I got my fee waived as I was expecting practices similar to Lloyds, Nationwide, NatWest, RBS and Santander, where at least a full statement month passes before the first fee is taken, so the benefits of the account are immediate (whether packaged benefits or earning cashback/rewards) and then paid for in arrears.

In April 2022, the monthly fee for Blue Rewards increased from £4 to £5, and the Loyalty Reward decreased from £7 to £5. How many of us here cancelled Blue Rewards back in March 2022? Did anyone receive a reward payment in April 2022 without a concomitant monthly fee?

Hopefully someone can comment on those questions to provide a definitive answer.

The other aspect that leads to a reasonable expectation that standard practices are being followed, is that the fee appears to be (but is not explicitly stated as) a prerequisite to being eligible for the rewards, and the rewards are considered "earned" during the month elsewhere in the text, yet they cannot really be considered earned until all the conditions are met, which, when the fee is taken in arrears, happens after the month has ended.

youngretired

I had Blue Rewards back in 2022 and cancelled mine after receiving February's payment and my understanding of the T&C's is that if you cancel Blue Rewards before receiving the payment you will not get it, so there is no way of getting the reward without paying the fee.

The issue people are having is because the T&C's for the £175 incentive state that you must turn on Blue Rewards before 30th November.

Normally when there isn't a incentive you would turn Blue Rewards on when you know you will meet all the T&C's, so not being worse off. I reinstated mine in December last year when they launched the Rainy Day savings account after making sure that I had the 2 DD set up and ready.

Banks that charge a fee for the actual current accounts will waiver the fee for the first month as you don't have any option, where Blue Rewards fee is normally optional.

Johnny-Cage

Take it nobody’s got the dosh since the batch done last week 

anna42hmr

Johnny-Cage said:

Take it nobody’s got the dosh since the batch done last week 

no, I've not, checked my account about half an hour ago and nothing in yet (switch completed on tuesday 21st)