Neighbour interfering with viewings

Titus_Wadd

We have been in our house for around 6 years the previous family only lasted 18 months before they tried to sell or let this house.  The husband had a breakdown and the marriage had fallen apart so our solicitor suggested including them in civil action for lying about there being no neighbour dispute during the selling process, but I can't add to their agony.  I also can't lie to prospective buyers when we do sell, that's just who I am.

We were granted an ex parte injunction roughly a year ago (but with no power of arrest attached)  It was expensive, with an estimate of £50,000 from our solicitor.  Fortunately we have legal protection with our house insurance and because our local solicitors had already started action the Legal Protection firm agreed we could continue with that firm and they would pay.  This was good because our solicitor already had a good grasp of the issues and layout of the houses etc whereas the legal advisors struggled to follow the strange and protracted tale of woe over the phone and we had v little confidence in them.  All well and good.  The Ex Parte bit means the our neighbours had no prior warning and were not in court when the judge awarded the injunction, and then there has to be another hearing for them to state their case and, beyond that, there also has to be a "substantive" case i.e. a case to settle the actual legal issues whether that's boundary dispute or civil harassment case etc.

The intervening 12 months saw the return case adjourned twice at the neighbours' request and then we also attended court 3 times but on the first two occasions the judge looked at the amount of evidence we had submitted and adjourned for 2.5 days trial (rather than the planned half day trail) with an additional half a day reading time for the judge.  We finally got to court a third time this Summer but the judge pointed out that there had been too much time elapsed before submitting the substantive case, even though there still hadn't been the court date to review whether the injunction could be justified with the other side having their say.  Our firm of Solicitors conceded that they were at fault, the judge refused to look at anything and awarded £35k costs against us.  That was quite a low moment!

Prior to that the Neighbours from Hell had broken the injunction on numerous occasions.  The Police were kind of interested that we had been awarded the ex parte injunction, but refused to do anything because there was no power of arrest attached; they were just not interested full stop!  

What I hadn't appreciated was that enforcing the injunction required another application to the court, more solicitor work and more waiting for a hearing and more cost!  You can't just ring the court and say "They're at it again!" - OK we knew that wasn't a thing, but I thought there might be more of a streamlined process (and less cost).  

From our perspective, after the initial shell-shock of the ineffective injunction being removed and having costs awarded against us, there are 4 cup-half-full aspects:  (1) the insurance company paid the fees.  (2) they may have chased the solicitor firm for these since they accepted responsibility for what was essentially an admin error on their part.  Plus, (3) they seem to be offering to draft the case at their expense if we want to go again.  Because none of the judges on the three occasions we adjourned or the case was dismissed had considered the statements or evidence this means that (4) everything previously submitted can be used afresh if there is a next time.  IANAL so forgiven me if I have used the incorrect vocab for the legal stuff.

The Council had, after 4 years of keeping a log of incidents and gigabytes of cctv footage issued a CPN, (Community Protection Notice - which replaced the old ASBOs) which had also been breached but the council (consistently awful) didn't manage to enforce it further, so that was a bit of a wasted effort too!  We are also in the middle of an Anti-Social Case Review which seems to be going nowhere; however if you have reported incidents to your local council and/or the police I'd recommend reading the ASBHelp website BUT don't expect your council to follow any of the processes as described on there, or as prescribed in the Government Guidance for Practitioners on the 2014 ASB Act.  We have quoted the 2023 guidance at meetings, but the Police and Council Community departments have not even read them!  I can't see to whom that document is aimed ifnot the councils and police force.

We have been living here for about 6 years and the anti-social behaviour began the week we moved in.  We have had a formal complaint against the Police upheld and another against the Council upheld by the Local Govt. Ombudsman and we have a further complaint being investigated by the LGO currently.  All hollow victories with an emotional investment in preparing the whole sorry saga over and over again is taking its toll.  It's almost as harmful as the harassment!  Victim support call it "secondary victimisation".

Ultimately we will take a hit on selling this house; we're over 60 so there's only a small mortgage and if we can sell for our purchase price, we will take it and walk away.  We have a good rapport with the agent who sold our previous house and he can market specifically to landlords who might be bigger and tougher than the NFH - the market rent for our house would be £4500 per month, so adding this to their portfolio at 2017/8 price might be tempting regardless of the neighbours.  Although we live in a buoyant housing area with market prices continuing to rise we're only losing the added equity we should have accrued in 6 years if we drop below the price we paid.  It's the way we are justifying to ourselves that we are not selling at a loss.  Perhaps before going to auction, the OP @Bailey1980 could speak to a commercial estate agent with a view to selling to a landlord or other business?

Our adult kids just want us out of here; even though it's eating into their inheritance.  To be free of endless stress-inducing reports and meetings, on top of the harassment, is worth it, and there are no pockets in a shroud.

Down-size if that's what you have to do to move on with your lives.  There is no action that the Police or Council is prepared to take to protect us so we'll have to do the same.  It's wrong and it's unjust but it's our reality.

Edited to add: There is no point in amassing cctv clips if you either, can't get anyone to look at them, or they won't act on them if they do, from our experience!  I strongly believe that the advice to keep a log or diary of incidents and that they can't act without film clips is just their way of kicking the can down the road.  In the meantime they hope the behaviour fizzles out, you'll give up reporting it, or you'll move away.

Grizebeck

Well it appears the OP must have now sorted this issue out...

Bailey1980

Grizebeck said:

Well it appears the OP must have now sorted this issue out...

It hasn't been sorted out - I'm having to deal with a lot of work issues (poss disciplinary for being late), my own health issues and further suicide attempt by my OH who remains in hospital. 

Selling seems to be the only option, but perhaps if there is less interest / continued behaviour of neighbour towards viewers, renting it out to cover mortgage and other bills might be all we can do.  Given what Titus_Wadd has said it doesn't seem an injunction will be effective; house insurance / home insurers solicitors aren't interested/able to help - have had multiple calls with them. 

Titus_Wadd

So sorry if I've made your circumstances feel more bleak, but I can only hope you can find some respite from your situation. Your and your partner's mental recovery take priority. If I come across any leverage to get the police and council to do their jobs I'll let you know. 

powerful_Rogue

Bailey1980 said:

Grizebeck said:

Well it appears the OP must have now sorted this issue out...

It hasn't been sorted out - I'm having to deal with a lot of work issues (poss disciplinary for being late), my own health issues and further suicide attempt by my OH who remains in hospital. 

Selling seems to be the only option, but perhaps if there is less interest / continued behaviour of neighbour towards viewers, renting it out to cover mortgage and other bills might be all we can do.  Given what Titus_Wadd has said it doesn't seem an injunction will be effective; house insurance / home insurers solicitors aren't interested/able to help - have had multiple calls with them. 

Don't do that without some SERIOUS research. You could enter a whole new world of pain.

For the small price it costs (in the scheme of things) and the personal help you have been offered to get an injunction, I can't understand why you wouldn't give this route a go first.

GDB2222

powerful_Rogue said:

Bailey1980 said:

Grizebeck said:

Well it appears the OP must have now sorted this issue out...

It hasn't been sorted out - I'm having to deal with a lot of work issues (poss disciplinary for being late), my own health issues and further suicide attempt by my OH who remains in hospital. 

Selling seems to be the only option, but perhaps if there is less interest / continued behaviour of neighbour towards viewers, renting it out to cover mortgage and other bills might be all we can do.  Given what Titus_Wadd has said it doesn't seem an injunction will be effective; house insurance / home insurers solicitors aren't interested/able to help - have had multiple calls with them. 

Don't do that without some SERIOUS research. You could enter a whole new world of pain.

For the small price it costs (in the scheme of things) and the personal help you have been offered to get an injunction, I can't understand why you wouldn't give this route a go first.

I can understand that. It takes some serious commitment to issue injunction proceedings. It really doesn't sound like the OP is in a position where she and her OH  can do that. 

A sensible, low stress, way to deal with the property is to put it in an auction. It's not an instant sale, but it's reasonably quick. Given the extraordinarily difficult neighbour, the price may be no different than can realistically be obtained through an estate agent.

Bailey1980

powerful_Rogue said:

Bailey1980 said:

Grizebeck said:

Well it appears the OP must have now sorted this issue out...

It hasn't been sorted out - I'm having to deal with a lot of work issues (poss disciplinary for being late), my own health issues and further suicide attempt by my OH who remains in hospital. 

Selling seems to be the only option, but perhaps if there is less interest / continued behaviour of neighbour towards viewers, renting it out to cover mortgage and other bills might be all we can do.  Given what Titus_Wadd has said it doesn't seem an injunction will be effective; house insurance / home insurers solicitors aren't interested/able to help - have had multiple calls with them. 

Don't do that without some SERIOUS research. You could enter a whole new world of pain.

For the small price it costs (in the scheme of things) and the personal help you have been offered to get an injunction, I can't understand why you wouldn't give this route a go first.

GDB2222 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Bailey1980 said:

Grizebeck said:

Well it appears the OP must have now sorted this issue out...

It hasn't been sorted out - I'm having to deal with a lot of work issues (poss disciplinary for being late), my own health issues and further suicide attempt by my OH who remains in hospital. 

Selling seems to be the only option, but perhaps if there is less interest / continued behaviour of neighbour towards viewers, renting it out to cover mortgage and other bills might be all we can do.  Given what Titus_Wadd has said it doesn't seem an injunction will be effective; house insurance / home insurers solicitors aren't interested/able to help - have had multiple calls with them. 

Don't do that without some SERIOUS research. You could enter a whole new world of pain.

For the small price it costs (in the scheme of things) and the personal help you have been offered to get an injunction, I can't understand why you wouldn't give this route a go first.

I can understand that. It takes some serious commitment to issue injunction proceedings. It really doesn't sound like the OP is in a position where she and her OH  can do that. 

A sensible, low stress, way to deal with the property is to put it in an auction. It's not an instant sale, but it's reasonably quick. Given the extraordinarily difficult neighbour, the price may be no different than can realistically be obtained through an estate agent.

GDB2222 is right. OH isn't in anywhere the right state and as for me with everything going on I don't have the headspace. I know that £300-£400 isn't a lot for the injunction but with OH having been off sick for months because of this and the issues with my job we don't have this amount lying around. Friends and Family have already helped as out as much as they can and in fact we have lost some people we considered to be close friends because they can't deal with hearing about what is going on & we are being selfish which maybe we are.  Plus there will be further costs beyond the injunction as stated by Titus_Wadd and as advised by solicitors we have spoken to - i think one of my other posts said we've been quoted £20k-£30k for legal costs if we pursue this. Again we don't have that money. legal advice through Household/car insurers have refused to help 

we know renting it out will come with issues - but we need to do something to cover the bills of a house we can't live in as well as making some money to pay rent ourselves on a diff property/ begin to save for another deposit on another house.  I tried to look at property guardianship instead but couldn't find how to go about finding someone for that. 

Cash buy companies are offering £30K below the market value, which isn't enough to pay off the existing mortgage on the property. 

Auction does seem to be the way we are going to have to go and hopefully the estate agent won't penalise us for this - contract states if we cancel the agreement and go elsewhere we have to pay £1000 for the marketing/work they have done. I know it's my fault for not thinking about all of this through thoroughly before signing up to a regular estate agent rather than an auction house. 


. Titus_Wadd said:

So sorry if I've made your circumstances feel more bleak, but I can only hope you can find some respite from your situation. Your and your partner's mental recovery take priority. If I come across any leverage to get the police and council to do their jobs I'll let you know. 

No need to apologise. You have confirmed pretty much our experience of Police/Council. We asked for an ASB case review and it's been refused. 

Ksw3

Please don't blame yourself r.e the fees etc. It sounds like you have made the best decisions for you at the time you made them. I'm also sorry that some people have left your side as a result of everything that is going on for you right now. 

I know you need to clear the mortgage however if for example you didn't and your mortgage company agreed to the sale, and you were left with a shortfall. That shortfall you know could be cleared. It would be difficult, take a while etc but you could hopefully see year by year progression. Atm all you have is uncertainty, pain and frustration. You almost don't know how big the issue is because its all consuming. 

I will add that it's very easy for me to sit here saying all this and the reality for you and your partner will be much more difficult with I'm sure many more factors to consider. I do wish you all the best with whatever you decide and hope that we have been able to ease your burden if only temporarily at this very difficult time. 

silvercar

I would advise against renting it out, you risk getting hassled from tenants who are themselves upset with the neighbours. You will also have to revisit the property many times for tenant issues etc. 

loveka

I just wanted to say how sorry I am about your situation.

I had a neighbour from hell ( not as bad as yours, though he was pretty bad) all over a boundary dispute he raised the day he moved in- we'd been there 20 years. We looked at so many options, injunctions,  court action, the police but like you hit a brick wall at every turn.

We tried to sell but 2 sales fell through, nothing yo do with the neighbour. We disclosed the issue to both sellers stating that the issue was personal to us. We had conceded to the boundary issue and basically gave him part of our garden.

In the end we rented it out. We were lucky enough to have a lot of equity in it some of which we took out via a remortgage and we  did a rent to buy mortgage to buy a much cheaper property. However, if this isn't an option you could rent somewhere else.

Renting it out is not necessarily the nightmare some are painting here. We rent with OpenRent so avoid the fees of using an agent. We have been able to pick and choose our tenant as we do the viewings and credit check so we get to know them. It's not foolproof but in my opinion it's better than an estate agent deciding who.lives there.

I loved that house but I was very close to being broken by the situation. If renting it out is your only option then do it. Its empowering to take some control of a situation. I wish you a lot of luck and a happy future. Honestly, just get out.