Fibre to the property (FTTP) - inconvenience

MouldyOldDough

iniltous said:

Openreach FTTP doesn’t come from a cabinet ( the copper cabinet or the ‘fibre to the cabinet’ FTTC , cabinet .
Virgin can and do use Openreach ducts and joint boxes using PIA ( physical infrastructure access ) if they want to , but if they don’t they may excavate for ducts etc themselves. 

Even if using PIA they can excavate for their own ducts and boxes to link their own network into the Openreach network 

That explains it then

But I still don't understand why all of the companies don't get together and share the ducting - it would save money, be much faster and less annoying to residents ....How many more ducts are going to be installed by BT, TalkTalk etc etc in the next 12 months ?

The pavement was only resurfaced about 4 years ago and is / was nice and smooth and I could easily manoeuvre my wheelchair along it - but already it is lumpy and uneven !!

littleboo

Openreach has ducting, other providers can pay to use it of they wish. Sometimes the ducts are blocked or full so cant be used. Or the provider prefers to use micro trenching where the cut a narrow slit and drop the fibre straight into the ground
There is no reason for any of them to work together, they are competitors

iniltous

It’s only Openreach that are ‘forced’ to allow competitors access to  their infrastructure , every once else doesn’t have to allow access , so they don’t .
OR competitors can get a huge advantage if they don’t have to build infrastructure themselves and simply rent space in or on OR infrastructure ( the rent paid by them is set by the regulator and not by OR ) …however as stated , not everywhere has OR duct , and even in places that does , it may not be serviceable, or that Alternative Network company may simply decide to build their own , even if access to OR infrastructure was an option .
As stated , these are competing companies, there are no ‘for the public good’ rules , it’s dog eat dog , the Government, via the regulator , believe that the answer to building FTTP is market forces and competition, not a coherent and cohesive central ‘plan’ , that’s why some areas could have 2 or 3 networks all competing for the same customers, and somewhere else , where it’s uneconomic to build may wait for years to get a single FTTP network, and only if the Government hand out tax payer cash to subsidise it

MouldyOldDough

iniltous said:

It’s only Openreach that are ‘forced’ to allow competitors access to  their infrastructure , every once else doesn’t have to allow access , so they don’t .
OR competitors can get a huge advantage if they don’t have to build infrastructure themselves and simply rent space in or on OR infrastructure ( the rent paid by them is set by the regulator and not by OR ) …however as stated , not everywhere has OR duct , and even in places that does , it may not be serviceable, or that Alternative Network company may simply decide to build their own , even if access to OR infrastructure was an option .
As stated , these are competing companies, there are no ‘for the public good’ rules , it’s dog eat dog , the Government, via the regulator , believe that the answer to building FTTP is market forces and competition, not a coherent and cohesive central ‘plan’ , that’s why some areas could have 2 or 3 networks all competing for the same customers, and somewhere else , where it’s uneconomic to build may wait for years to get a single FTTP network, and only if the Government hand out tax payer cash to subsidise it

The watchdog should ensure that work is done with the public (customers!!), in mind

MouldyOldDough

iniltous said:

Openreach FTTP doesn’t come from a cabinet ( the copper cabinet or the ‘fibre to the cabinet’ FTTC , cabinet .
Virgin can and do use Openreach ducts and joint boxes using PIA ( physical infrastructure access ) if they want to , but if they don’t they may excavate for ducts etc themselves. 

Even if using PIA they can excavate for their own ducts and boxes to link their own network into the Openreach network 

That explains it then.... 

matelodave

A few yaers ago our company had a contract to lay cables in Holland, there they had a law which compelled you to allow access to your excavation for othe utilities as well, which in the face of it sounds like an excellent idea. However, because the variou organisations had differing timescales the trenches remained open for well over a year until everyone had done their work.

The costs were horrendous as was the sheer amount of inconvenience to people having to negotiate never ending roadworks. It would have been quicker, cheaper and less disruptive if each company had just done its job, rather than prolonging the agony for all.

Eldi_Dos

Heard of similar set-up in Belgium, all your eggs in one basket, if digger goes through trench all the services go out.
Diverse routing did not seem to be high on the agenda.

phillw

MouldyOldDough said:
But I still don't understand why all of the companies don't get together and share the ducting - it would save money, be much faster and less annoying to residents ....

If Virgin have paid money to lay cables and they hope to recoup the money by getting customers in that area, then letting BT use the ducts and undercut them would mean that they wouldn't bother installing any new cables.

It would be far more convenient for me if you let me stay in your house and use your car when I want, why won't you agree to that?

MouldyOldDough

phillw said:

MouldyOldDough said:
But I still don't understand why all of the companies don't get together and share the ducting - it would save money, be much faster and less annoying to residents ....

If Virgin have paid money to lay cables and they hope to recoup the money by getting customers in that area, then letting BT use the ducts and undercut them would mean that they wouldn't bother installing any new cables.

It would be far more convenient for me if you let me stay in your house and use your car when I want, why won't you agree to that?

Thsts not a good analogy 
Think instead of a community owned car!! 
I am not saying that virgin should lay the whole cost but that it should be shared!! 

phillw

MouldyOldDough said:
Thsts not a good analogy 

Think instead of a community owned car!! 
I am not saying that virgin should lay the whole cost but that it should be shared!! 

For your community owned car analogy to work it would have to be something like your neighbour looks at your car and says "I'll give you £5 a day if I can have the use of it whenever I want" then rents it out to someone else at £300 a day and you don't get any extra money.