High EOn.Next tariff?

willowanne

Gerry1 said:

More and more confusing.

*That meter dates back to 2013 and is good until Feb 2033.  Has it only just been installed?

* How many meters do you now have?

* Those times are Economy 10, not Economy 7.  It's a legacy tariff that's being phased out and it's becoming very expensive.

* What type of storage heaters do you have?  The old simple ones with input and output control knobs, or the all-singing all-dancing High Heat Retention ones (e.g. Dimplex Quantum) with a display screen and fan?

* Make sure the Boost switch for the immersion heater is left switched off.

I have this meter now only. The  two with dials that went round have been taken away. I'm hoping things will be much simpler now. 
I have the new Dimplex Quantums, two of which don't work properly as the fans don't work. 
I had no say in what kind of meter went in to replace the old one - a guy just came and put it in. However, I think he said its only the rate 4 that I need to care about. 
I don't ever boost the water, however, before the new (ish) meter, the hot water tank would switch itself off and I would have to flick a switch in the fuse board to make it work again. I've had ongoing issues with my electrics for ages. The electricians that came round to fix the immersion tank issues and the heaters with broken fans blamed the lack of tele switch on my previous meter. I'm not a stupid person but its all got just too confusing. I've been told that the issue with the meter was making me use loads of electricity for the immersion tank that I shouldn't have been doing. I can only hope that this is not happening any more. My water heater never goes off now, so that's a start. 

Netexporter

The Housing Association should sort this out. If there is no means of turning the immersion heater off that is against wiring regulations.

Scot_39

The new meter is 5 port with both live and switched live connected in that meter photo.

Brown 4th and 5th port towards rhs.

You no longer need a time switch it's built in.  Fixed gmt not radio switched.

The 4th wire should feed the live isolator switch.

The 5th the off peak switch - and the quantums and hw should be fed from that isolator.

Edit: Actually the main charge input in dual wiring mode should be wired into the off peak circuit - the fan and the controller needs a 24/7 live feed ragardless.

The timing sticker is for 10 hrs off peak suggesting E10 as the new tariff.

But you might still be on a single rate tariff, so please check.

That's normally more expensive ratewise than e7, but works well with older night storage heaters.

Quantums could be better on e7 - but you can cook and wash etc afternoon and evening at off peak - so depends on rates and use split.

molerat

Spoonie_Turtle said:

willowanne said:

Gerry1 said:

* Make sure you're now on monthly billing.

Because I pay direct debit I always assumed I was on monthly billing.

You're only on monthly billing if they actually send you bills each month

They only bill monthly if you supply a reading each month

Gerry1

Curious that they fitted an old recycled non-smart meter.

You need to check that its opening readings shown on the card next to it are sensible and that the same figures are shown on the bill.  Above all, make sure the bills don't show opening readings of zero !

Similarly, the closing reads for the old meters need to be sensible and correct.

Don't assume that the times on the sticker are correct.  You need to check the exact times when the rate change, all six of them, for two reasons.  (Just keep looking at the leftmost digit and note whether it's 1 or 4.)  Firstly, so that you can confirm whether you're on E10 or E7 times.  Secondly, so that you know when you can use the washing machine, tumble dryer etc at cheap rate.

I'm beginning to wonder whether the Quantums and the water heater(s) have been wired optimally, so that's potentially two more cans of worms.  Is each Quantum fed by one circuit or two?  If it's only one then it's a bodge that could work out expensive for you, but let's check first.

I agree that the HA should be sorting this out but they may be out of their depth, ditto the electrician (especially if he wasn't instructed correctly) and you'll need to be completely familiar with everything so that you can explain any shortcomings and not be fobbed off.

Scot_39

Gerry1 said:

Curious that they fitted an old recycled non-smart meter.

I was wondering if that was to source an E10 configured meter.

My smets1 - is operating on an E10 tariff - but their have been a few posts here of people not being able to get suppliers to fit a modern smets2 to support it.

No idea why - other than choice - as certainly the detailed smets1 spec meant any meter could support far more complex configurations in the final c2013 draft spec at gov.uk

And of course it could be the OP is just in a non reception area.

Scot_39

If the fitted meter was Smart - chances are EOn Next would be issuing monthly statements - incuding that months usage billed - to the customer.

EOn however at one stage were billing me every 6m, every 3m, then appeared to jump in sync with Ofgem caps - beforre moved to EOn Next.

And one of the bills above had multiple customer readings - 2 intermediate in the nominal Ofgem 3m update period - on it - on the one bill - so god knows what their "dumb meter" standard is.

But that new old (thats 02 2013 check sticker ?) meter doesn't appear to have a comms hub

https://www.landisgyr.com/webfoo/wp-content/uploads/product-files/5246_Technical_Specification11.pdf

willowanne

Scot_39 said:

If the fitted meter was Smart - chances are EOn Next would be issuing monthly statements - incuding that months usage billed - to the customer.

EOn however at one stage were billing me every 6m, every 3m, then appeared to jump in sync with Ofgem caps - beforre moved to EOn Next.

And one of the bills above had multiple customer readings - 2 intermediate in the nominal Ofgem 3m update period - on it - on the one bill - so god knows what their "dumb meter" standard is.

But that new old (thats 02 2013 check sticker ?) meter doesn't appear to have a comms hub

https://www.landisgyr.com/webfoo/wp-content/uploads/product-files/5246_Technical_Specification11.pdf

The meter is not a SMART meter - I can't get one because of the HA, I think. Its just a digital meter that allows peak/off peak because the flat has storage heaters. This is as far as I know. 

willowanne

Gerry1 said:

Curious that they fitted an old recycled non-smart meter.

You need to check that its opening readings shown on the card next to it are sensible and that the same figures are shown on the bill.  Above all, make sure the bills don't show opening readings of zero !

Similarly, the closing reads for the old meters need to be sensible and correct.

Don't assume that the times on the sticker are correct.  You need to check the exact times when the rate change, all six of them, for two reasons.  (Just keep looking at the leftmost digit and note whether it's 1 or 4.)  Firstly, so that you can confirm whether you're on E10 or E7 times.  Secondly, so that you know when you can use the washing machine, tumble dryer etc at cheap rate.

I'm beginning to wonder whether the Quantums and the water heater(s) have been wired optimally, so that's potentially two more cans of worms.  Is each Quantum fed by one circuit or two?  If it's only one then it's a bodge that could work out expensive for you, but let's check first.

I agree that the HA should be sorting this out but they may be out of their depth, ditto the electrician (especially if he wasn't instructed correctly) and you'll need to be completely familiar with everything so that you can explain any shortcomings and not be fobbed off.

The closing meter readings were fine, and I wrote down the starting numbers. However, the engineer who changed the meter told me there were only two readings I needed to send in to EOn, but there's a third number. 
I intend to ask the HA to send an electrician for the Quantum heaters as two are still faulty. The previous electrician said they couldn't repair it until the meter was replaced. He had been on a course so he could work on them! 

Scot_39

Many old "dumb" night storage heaters only had 1 power supply.   That charged off peak using a single connection - often for convenience switched at off-peak times by the meter itself.

Your new meter should be doing that on it's 5th port - at the times stated - if the quantums are dual wired.

They would then if an old for new replacement - needed a live feed added - to power the fan (iirc c11W) and the little control panel (0.5W) - and the boost heater if selected by user.

(They have a mode where they can work like - at larger sizes - a 1kW fan heater off of the live supply as well)

But unlike many other similar modern heaters - the Dimplex can also be wired - off of live feed only.

And you then have to ensure programmed charge times match the meters.

See page 8 - figs 10a,10b of installation manual - and if you haven't been given a copy by installers - download a copy of the user guide

https://product-portal.gdhv.com/sites/default/files/2023-08/Quantum G10 Installation User Instructions - Issue 5.pdf

See list at

https://www.dimplex.co.uk/product/quantum-rf-hhr-storage-heater#manuals

But if you do get an electrcian back - ask him to explain - how he or previous installtion team has configured it.  (There have been posts of HA installing them and not really properly explaining or leaving manuals etc - a poor show as often - they are fitting them in non tach savy OAP type households)

Because if you ever want to use heat during BST - and they are single wired - and are in fact on E10 - it may need the settings changed by an hour in Oct / Mar etc.

PS In theory your new meter 100A Led tells you when the off-peak circuits are active - if you have convenient access - if you cannot tell from the spurs driving your NSH or HW immersion (some have red LEDs others don't)