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Car_54

CliveOfIndia said:

Grey_Critic said:

Should be fun if you are doing 20 mph and a cyclist passes you doing 25mph plus (and they do) my son does Time Trials and averages are a lot more than 20mph

This one has always intrigued me.  Years ago (and I mean many years, when speed cameras were few and far between), when I was a kid, they installed a speed camera at the bottom of a really steep hill.  Me and my mates would go pelting down the hill on our bikes, trying to trigger it.

The prevailing wisdom at the time was that a cyclist cannot be done for speeding because a speedometer is not a legal requirement on a bike (I had one, just for curiosity more than anything else).  Obviously a speed camera can't "get" you anyway, as there's no registration plate, but a copper with a speed gun might try.

But supposedly you could get done for "dangerous cycling" or some such.  I've no idea if this is true or not - I was about 12 years old at the time !  But it's an interesting idea.

Speed limits on public roads apply to motor vehicles, so not to push-bikes.

You can indeed be done for dangerous or careless/inconsiderate cycling, or for cycling under the influence of drink or drugs.

TooManyPoints

Seems more complicated...

It isn’t really. 

What we are talking about here are “Restricted roads”. In England & Wales these are defined as those where “…there is provided on it a system of street lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart”. This is laid down in Section 80 of the Road Traffic Regulations Act. Section 81 of the same Act goes on to say this: 

General speed limit for restricted roads.

(1)It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour. 

But it also says: 

(2)The national authority may by order increase or reduce the rate of speed fixed by subsection (1) above, either as originally enacted or as varied under this subsection.

So, section 81(1) provides for a blanket 30mph restriction on roads with street lights and section 81(2) provides for national authorities to vary that (which the Welsh government has chosen to do).

The rules for drivers are straightforward:

Leaving aside motorways, if there are street lights, unless there are signs to the contrary, the limit is 30mph, but 20mph in Wales. If there are no street lights, unless there are signs to the contrary, the National Speed Limit applies (which varies according to the vehicle and road type). No individual orders are required for these limits (apart from the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph as enacted by the Welsh government) as they are provided for by the Road Traffic Regulations Act. However, if any other limit is to apply the local authority must make a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) and provide signage to indicate it.

The cause of much of the misunderstanding (and resulting speeding offences) is that many drivers do not understand that simple rule. If you are unfortunate enough to go on a speed awareness course you almost certainly encounter a few drivers who lack this understanding. The most common gap in their knowledge is that many believe there are default 40mph limits (the usual assumption for that being dual carriageways in "built up" areas). 

baser999

Barkin said:

Just stick to 20mph max. if you're not sure?
It won't alter your journey time significantly!

According to officialdom “it’ll only add a minute” 

TooManyPoints

According to officialdom “it’ll only add a minute” 

So it will - if you're travelling just one mile. Beyond that it will cost you one extra minute for every additional mile you travel.

prowla

I think the rule is 20 in-town unless you see otherwise.

It is possible for a road to have different speeds in opposite directions.

born_again

sevenhills said:

sheramber said:

Highway Code already updated

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

National speed limits

The following speed limits apply to all single and dual carriageways with street lights, unless there are signs showing otherwise:

• 30 miles per hour (48km/h) in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland
• 20 miles per hour (32km/h) in Wales

I was referring to the printed version, not every driver is online. That is the .gov website

Wonder how many people have a printed version.

Never had a printed version after passing test in the 70's.

cymruchris

born_again said:

sevenhills said:

sheramber said:

Highway Code already updated

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

National speed limits

The following speed limits apply to all single and dual carriageways with street lights, unless there are signs showing otherwise:

• 30 miles per hour (48km/h) in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland
• 20 miles per hour (32km/h) in Wales

I was referring to the printed version, not every driver is online. That is the .gov website

Wonder how many people have a printed version.

Never had a printed version after passing test in the 70's.

I would hazard a guess that the majority of drivers haven't looked at one since passing their test whenever that may have been, as much as we should all keep ourselves up-to-date.

Aretnap

TooManyPoints said:

According to officialdom “it’ll only add a minute” 

So it will - if you're travelling just one mile. Beyond that it will cost you one extra minute for every additional mile you travel.

It won't, of course. Driving at 20 instead of 30 would cost you a minute per mile if you were driving on a dead straight road at a constant speed, with no junctions, traffic lights, zebra crossings, parked cars to negotiate etc etc. But to good approximation no roads in built up areas are like that, and the few that are will mostly be designated as 30 mph roads anyway. In typical urban driving, briefly hitting a top speed of 30rather than 20 mph between stops at traffic lights etc will have a small or negligible impact on journey times. 

Aretnap

CliveOfIndia said:

Grey_Critic said:

Should be fun if you are doing 20 mph and a cyclist passes you doing 25mph plus (and they do) my son does Time Trials and averages are a lot more than 20mph

The prevailing wisdom at the time was that a cyclist cannot be done for speeding because a speedometer is not a legal requirement on a bike (I had one, just for curiosity more than anything else).  

It has nothing to do with speedometers. Speed limits were introduced decades before speedometers became a legal requirement on new motor cars - and vintage cars still don't have to have them. You can still be done for speeding in a Model T Ford, and the lack of a speedo won't be any defence at all.

As above the reason you can't be done for speeding on a bicycle is that the law specifically refers to motor vehicles

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/89

So speed limits don't apply to a bicycle, a horse and cart, a wheelchair, a pram, a toboggan or that home-made go-cart that you went careering down the hill on when you were a kid. Or pedestrians for that matter - a good sprinter can do over 20 mph, downhill with a following wind Usain Bolt might just manage 30.

(Why do speed limits only apply to motor vehicles? Well motor vehicles have a well-documented tendency to cause death and destruction on a large scale which none of the other things listed above do. Driving a car is by a country mile the most dangerous thing that most people do on a regular basis - certainly as far as risks to other people go - so of course it's also the most heavily regulated.)

bouicca21

You can be done for « furious » cycling under a Victorian statute.