DONT want UC, applying for a DRO.

stu12345_2

sheramber said:

stu12345_2 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

stu12345_2 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

my wife is on antidepressants, I am not,   we have used up our holiday leave. i read this on the net, do you agree?--
"You need to make it clear that a number of staff at certain JCP offices across the country are still threatening to stop claimants Housing Benefit by way of sanctions - this is illegal and wrong - JCP cannot sanction your HB or Council Tax benefit - they can only stop your JSA portion of around the princely sum of £73 a week."

Housing Benefit is a different, separate benefit.  Same with Council Tax Support.  These are administered by local councils and do not have work conditionality attached.  The only people who can claim Housing Benefit are those already claiming it, peopoe in supported/sheltered housing, and some pensioners.

You cannot claim Housing Benefit, you would be claiming UC which is subject to sanctions.  None of it is ring-fenced from sanctions or other deductions.

my council process council tax support, but not housing benefit, its part of UC, i dont understand how someone could get rent sanction,  a council home is for life, I used to work pt time 15 yrs ago and claimed housing benefit, i was happy enough on my small wage, got my rent paid. whats all this deal about housing benefit being part of UC.

The rules have changed since you claimed 15 years ago.

who changed it? the tories, i assume if the labour gov got in they would change it again, they have always been against tory policies.

stu12345_2

sometimes , it gets you angry, my neighbour, are a couple aged 25 each, they say they are leading their 2nd childhoods and too stressed to work, I go to work at 520AM, i feel like banging on their door and saying wakey wakey.
I see them in the shops buying puzzle books and jigsaws. they never leave their flat unless its to go to the shops and spend their benefits on junk. Surprised, they have never been sanctioned. they have never held a job to my knowledge in 3 yrs as neighbours. I have been in their flat twice, it is manky and full of rubbish like jigsaws and colouring in books.

Spoonie_Turtle

stu12345_2 said:

is the 13 weeks sanction, half award, or is it 100% no award, or is it no jsa award, but full housing benefit award part of the UC. what is the rules, for each part of the UC claim, and waht is the max sanctions, surely you can never lose your home, we rent council, we were told our rent will always be covered, even if we  are on the dole.

The sanction for one of you (£9.50/day) would work out at about half of the standard allowance.
Sanction for both of you would work out to be nearly the whole of the standard allowance.
If you are still working you'd have deductions for your earnings too.

The elements of UC add together to make up your award. 
Based on the information so far, assuming it's just you and your wife, no children or disabilities: for you and your wife, it would be
the standard allowance (£578.82/month) plus
the rent element - if you live in a one-bedroom property the whole of it will be covered, but if you live in a two-bedroom property or more there'll be a 14% reduction for one spare bedroom or 25% reduction for 2 or more spare bedrooms.

Deductions for earnings, sanctions, overpayments, repaying benefit loans, etc. are taken from the whole award, no ringfencing of any elements.

If you reduced your hours and were sanctioned, you would have a deduction for your earnings AND the deduction for the sanction, which would wipe out the standard allowance and eat into the housing element - possibly wiping that out too, depending on your rent and level of earnings.

If you either reduced hours or gave up work, you would have to attend appointments and look for work / more work - your work coach could even decide you have to ask your current employer for more hours (being back in the same position as now) and if you didn't, you'd be sanctioned further.

So the safest way to proceed - in benefit terms anyway, as a reminder I know nothing about debt management - would be to get fit notes (both of you) and reduce your hours/leave your job.  Doing so for health reasons would mean you don't receive a sanction. 
You can in theory argue that's why you've reduced hours without a fit note, but in practice a fit note is really the only medical evidence they accept.  (A fight to get them to accept anything else would likely be long and stressful.)

stu12345_2

Spoonie_Turtle said:

stu12345_2 said:

is the 13 weeks sanction, half award, or is it 100% no award, or is it no jsa award, but full housing benefit award part of the UC. what is the rules, for each part of the UC claim, and waht is the max sanctions, surely you can never lose your home, we rent council, we were told our rent will always be covered, even if we  are on the dole.

The sanction for one of you (£9.50/day) would work out at about half of the standard allowance.
Sanction for both of you would work out to be nearly the whole of the standard allowance.
If you are still working you'd have deductions for your earnings too.

The elements of UC add together to make up your award. 
Based on the information so far, assuming it's just you and your wife, no children or disabilities: for you and your wife, it would be
the standard allowance (£578.82/month) plus
the rent element - if you live in a one-bedroom property the whole of it will be covered, but if you live in a two-bedroom property or more there'll be a 14% reduction for one spare bedroom or 25% reduction for 2 or more spare bedrooms.

Deductions for earnings, sanctions, overpayments, repaying benefit loans, etc. are taken from the whole award, no ringfencing of any elements.

If you reduced your hours and were sanctioned, you would have a deduction for your earnings AND the deduction for the sanction, which would wipe out the standard allowance and eat into the housing element - possibly wiping that out too, depending on your rent and level of earnings.

If you either reduced hours or gave up work, you would have to attend appointments and look for work / more work - your work coach could even decide you have to ask your current employer for more hours (being back in the same position as now) and if you didn't, you'd be sanctioned further.

So the safest way to proceed - in benefit terms anyway, as a reminder I know nothing about debt management - would be to get fit notes (both of you) and reduce your hours/leave your job.  Doing so for health reasons would mean you don't receive a sanction. 
You can in theory argue that's why you've reduced hours without a fit note, but in practice a fit note is really the only medical evidence they accept.  (A fight to get them to accept anything else would likely be long and stressful.)

Spoonie_Turtle said:

stu12345_2 said:

is the 13 weeks sanction, half award, or is it 100% no award, or is it no jsa award, but full housing benefit award part of the UC. what is the rules, for each part of the UC claim, and waht is the max sanctions, surely you can never lose your home, we rent council, we were told our rent will always be covered, even if we  are on the dole.

The sanction for one of you (£9.50/day) would work out at about half of the standard allowance.
Sanction for both of you would work out to be nearly the whole of the standard allowance.
If you are still working you'd have deductions for your earnings too.

The elements of UC add together to make up your award. 
Based on the information so far, assuming it's just you and your wife, no children or disabilities: for you and your wife, it would be
the standard allowance (£578.82/month) plus
the rent element - if you live in a one-bedroom property the whole of it will be covered, but if you live in a two-bedroom property or more there'll be a 14% reduction for one spare bedroom or 25% reduction for 2 or more spare bedrooms.

Deductions for earnings, sanctions, overpayments, repaying benefit loans, etc. are taken from the whole award, no ringfencing of any elements.

If you reduced your hours and were sanctioned, you would have a deduction for your earnings AND the deduction for the sanction, which would wipe out the standard allowance and eat into the housing element - possibly wiping that out too, depending on your rent and level of earnings.

If you either reduced hours or gave up work, you would have to attend appointments and look for work / more work - your work coach could even decide you have to ask your current employer for more hours (being back in the same position as now) and if you didn't, you'd be sanctioned further.

So the safest way to proceed - in benefit terms anyway, as a reminder I know nothing about debt management - would be to get fit notes (both of you) and reduce your hours/leave your job.  Doing so for health reasons would mean you don't receive a sanction. 
You can in theory argue that's why you've reduced hours without a fit note, but in practice a fit note is really the only medical evidence they accept.  (A fight to get them to accept anything else would likely be long and stressful.)

or just reduce hours, dont claim anything,  get a DRO, live frugally for one year,  have £22,500 wrote off, be debt free faster, as i know more about debt solutions these days than i do about  benefits.

marcia_

stu12345_2 said:

marcia_ said:

stu12345_2 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

stu12345_2 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

my wife is on antidepressants, I am not,   we have used up our holiday leave. i read this on the net, do you agree?--
"You need to make it clear that a number of staff at certain JCP offices across the country are still threatening to stop claimants Housing Benefit by way of sanctions - this is illegal and wrong - JCP cannot sanction your HB or Council Tax benefit - they can only stop your JSA portion of around the princely sum of £73 a week."

Housing Benefit is a different, separate benefit.  Same with Council Tax Support.  These are administered by local councils and do not have work conditionality attached.  The only people who can claim Housing Benefit are those already claiming it, peopoe in supported/sheltered housing, and some pensioners.

You cannot claim Housing Benefit, you would be claiming UC which is subject to sanctions.  None of it is ring-fenced from sanctions or other deductions.

my council process council tax support, but not housing benefit, its part of UC, i dont understand how someone could get rent sanction,  a council home is for life, I used to work pt time 15 yrs ago and claimed housing benefit, i was happy enough on my small wage, got my rent paid. whats all this deal about housing benefit being part of UC.

 Council home is for life IF you abide by your tenancy agreement which means paying your rent amongst other things. Rent payments via UC are not for life if you do not qualify or have been sanctioned. 

just my council website say, if you are on a low income, you get help with your rent, there is nothing in it about you will be evicted cos of sanctions.

 No but it does say you must pay your rent. Of course you risk eviction if you fail to pay. 

 Your council wont know the ins and outs of UC sanctions but will still expect their rent 

stu12345_2

my work coach would never ask my employer to up my hours, as they would have new staff in doing the morning part of  our job that we cut back on.

stu12345_2

marcia_ said:

stu12345_2 said:

marcia_ said:

stu12345_2 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

stu12345_2 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

Grumpy_chap said:

stu12345_2 said:

we work 6 hrs a day each, but spread over 13 hrs  with times off  during the day, it destroys our sleep patterns and complete rest. I am thinking to jsut quit from work fully, claim cont jsa and housing benefit( does that mean cont jsa and UC as my housing benefit is now part of UC, could i / we be sanctioned, does a sanction mean no housing benefit part of a UC claim or is housing help, never sanctioned if you resign from work.or is just the cont jsa be sanctioned?

AIUI, Cont JSA (NS JSA as it is now) will be refused if you resigned from work of your own choice.  NS JSA also requires that you are looking for work.

Do you have any annual leave available?
Perhaps, a period off work for both you and your wife would relieve some of the stress that you are currently facing that is linked to the workplace.

Have you consulted your GP about whether they consider your stress levels sufficient to warrant a fit-note?

my wife is on antidepressants, I am not,   we have used up our holiday leave. i read this on the net, do you agree?--
"You need to make it clear that a number of staff at certain JCP offices across the country are still threatening to stop claimants Housing Benefit by way of sanctions - this is illegal and wrong - JCP cannot sanction your HB or Council Tax benefit - they can only stop your JSA portion of around the princely sum of £73 a week."

Housing Benefit is a different, separate benefit.  Same with Council Tax Support.  These are administered by local councils and do not have work conditionality attached.  The only people who can claim Housing Benefit are those already claiming it, peopoe in supported/sheltered housing, and some pensioners.

You cannot claim Housing Benefit, you would be claiming UC which is subject to sanctions.  None of it is ring-fenced from sanctions or other deductions.

my council process council tax support, but not housing benefit, its part of UC, i dont understand how someone could get rent sanction,  a council home is for life, I used to work pt time 15 yrs ago and claimed housing benefit, i was happy enough on my small wage, got my rent paid. whats all this deal about housing benefit being part of UC.

 Council home is for life IF you abide by your tenancy agreement which means paying your rent amongst other things. Rent payments via UC are not for life if you do not qualify or have been sanctioned. 

just my council website say, if you are on a low income, you get help with your rent, there is nothing in it about you will be evicted cos of sanctions.

 No but it does say you must pay your rent. Of course you risk eviction if you fail to pay. 

 Your council wont know the ins and outs of UC sanctions but will still expect their rent 

I know of people that got sanctioned, but had to use food banks, but never lost their council/housing association home, wonder why that was?

Alice_Holt

Although I don't have direct involvement with debt solutions, I am aware that a DRO is a formal process with set procedures including an income maximisation assessment. So, if the accredited debt adviser discovers that an applicant could increase household income by applying for a benefit such as UC - then the applicant would need to do that before their DRO can be approved. 

 https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/debt-solutions/debt-relief-orders/debt-relief-orders-explained/how-income-debts-and-belongings-are-assessed-for-a-debt-relief-order/

tomtom256

The can't sanction the housing element, they can only sanction the standard element.

So any housing you claimed via UC would be safe, however it could still be impacted by any wages you receive.

stu12345_2

Alice_Holt said:

Although I don't have direct involvement with debt solutions, I am aware that a DRO is a formal process with set procedures including an income maximisation assessment. So, if the accredited debt adviser discovers that an applicant could increase household income by applying for a benefit such as UC - then the applicant would need to do that before their DRO can be approved. 

 https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/debt-solutions/debt-relief-orders/debt-relief-orders-explained/how-income-debts-and-belongings-are-assessed-for-a-debt-relief-order/

thanks read that before,  yes it looks at your earnings and any benefits you are getting, it doesnt force you to up your earnings or force you to apply for benefits. the national debt line advisor said that to me. as long as you dont hide any extra income you are getting then that is fine and all above board.
"how much spare available income you've got, looking at all the money you've got coming into your household."
yes it looks at the total money coming in, it doesnt state, you have to maximise anything, all that is needed is the figures and make sure you dont lie about the total  you get.
   for example a back to work job centre advisor would show someone unemployed how much better they maybe if they took a job, instead of benefits, BUT a DRO is insolvency person, and will look at figures of what you get, what you owe, they arent there to say, up your hours, do some overtime, sell some things, claim a small bit of UC..They jsut want every debt mentioned and lsit what savings and earnings or benefits you are on, and if they dont go above a spare £75 a month each, the DRO will be approved.
my consultation takes place on the 28th september, where i will find out if we will qualify if  we go part time at work.