Octopus Estimating readings for Smart Meter

TheMaverick000000

In June this year, I received my latest electric bill from Octopus and wondered how it could possibly be so high. On further inspection of the bill, I noticed that it was estimated. Which is odd, as in October of last year I had a smart meter fitted. On calling them, I was told that they had been estimating my bills since March of this year. When I pointed out that I had a smart meter installed by them, I was told, 'oh, it must be faulty'. I was told that I needed the 'old' meter changing to their new smart meter. This was fitted at the end of July.

I must point out that my last smart bill was on 6 March 2023, and showed that I was in CREDIT of £55.34.

My monthly payments at this point were set at £140.

I called Octopus again, a week after the fitting, to ask about these estimated bills, and was told they would call me back. No callback materialised.

This evening I received an e-mail from them with an updated monthly payment of £199.15 and that my balance was £966.81 IN ARREARS!!!

I am a pensioner living in a one-bedroom flat. My bills should NEVER be this high. Also, I am wondering what they are playing at sending these horrifying bills in the evening when they are only contactable during office hours.

I shall be contacting them again tomorrow to, hopefully, sort this out.

Spoonie_Turtle

Have you sent them any actual readings after being told the smart meter wasn't communicating?  That's the only way to be charged accurately for your energy usage.

TheMaverick000000

I cannot read the meter. My eyesight is too poor. The meter is in a very small communal room, with no lights or windows. They are well aware of this.

I have one of those small internal meters that read the smart meter remotely. I have just checked the reading on it, and it says that I have used £5.99 so far, this week.

According to THIS meter, I am using around £80 of electricity per month.

Their estimates appear to be based on my usage over the winter period, which was about £150 per month.

Spoonie_Turtle

TheMaverick000000 said:

I cannot read the meter. My eyesight is too poor. The meter is in a very small communal room, with no lights or windows. They are well aware of this.

I have one of those small internal meters that read the smart meter remotely. I have just checked the reading on it, and it says that I have used £5.99 so far, this week.

Ah, in that case they should come and read it for you.  I assume you're on the Priority Services Register?  Maybe they need a reminder.
Alternatively, would you be able to take a photo of the meter reading to then zoom in and see?  I don't know how well smart.meter displays photograph, with or without a flash.

The internal 'meter' is the in-home display (IHD) and the tariff information - i.e. cost - on it is often wrong.  You may be able to take a reasonably accurate meter reading via it though, unless you're on a multi-rate tariff.  May not be as perfectly exact/up-to-date as a meter reading from the meter but likely better than an estimate.

QrizB

When your old smart meter was exchanged, the engineer should have taken a closing reading from it and Octopus should have used this reading on your bill.

Your new meter is likely to have started again from zero.

What are the meter readings used on your bills?

Scot_39

You need to get as much info as possible about usage on the old meter and just before and after each swap.

And make a note of ideally kWh not just costs (they vary greatly at times- if on a non fixed standard tariff - as Ofgem cap jumped c50% Apr 22, last Oct - even with EPG -  another 25% - and electric fell c10% in July  - so £s isnt a good way of establishing history)

Last months kWh for £80 would if matched cap etc  have been c £90 untul June, c£70 prior to Oct 22, c£45-50 prior to Apr.

Which begs the question - how long have you been paying £140?


So depending on your billing cycle (monthly, 3x monthly or worse still 6x monthly)

Try to make a timeline history, so  make a note of
dates,
kWh usage (total or peak and off peak),
of rate (or rates if say e7) and standing charges,
meter readings
- and if actual of estimated 
and
account credit / debit balances 
And payments shown against each statement too.

Paper fine - but if spreadsheet savy might help manipulate and annotate etc.

The key points are obviously last bill before,  first bill after, each meter change etc.  And the first and last readings respectively for those meters.

Edit : or rather more accurately the last actual reading (meter reader or smart actual whilst reporting) bills.

And if you aren't confident you can - you might want to try and get help from someone like citizens advice or a disability charity like scope if eyesight failing etc - to help you go through any  bills you have kept on your behalf.

And help you formulate a challenge/ complaint.  And any help you might get elsewhere if turns out to be a real debt.

The old first smart meter that was changed in July - were you given final readings(*), or told the meter was too faulty to provide them ?

(*) Meters that lose comms to suppliers via external network often continue to work in dumb mode in kWh use terms. So continue reading and storing info for iirc 13 months.
(You say you cannot read easily - so perhaps should be on the suppliers priority services register - and they will read regularly for you if link fails again. It may bring othef protection too.).

(Did you have an internal in home display for that meter ?
Did it appear to be working say upto June when  you got the first estimated bill ?
Did you take readings from it in kWh to challenge that reading (assuming you didn't attempt meter - but maybe if access you could have got a friend or family member  to read actual meter )


The meter fitter might have given them to you or might have just written them on a card in the meter cabinet at new meter (some dont fill it in properly though from reports in some posts) - or just recorded them on his reporting tool before leaving site.

Is the new high bill claiming estimate or an actual final meter read from end of July ?
If estimate, and you think meter was just out of comms, and have access to cabinet can you get a friend to have a look / check for card info now ?



There's something very abnormal about the £1000 swing though given it appears to cover Mar Apr May Jun and possibly July to meter swap.


Especially as you would have paid say min another 3x£140 in between - possibly 4 or 5.  Bringing that upto £1400-£1500 or more usage appearing in as little as 3-5m - about 4500- 5000kWh (**) or more  at sr 30p in July. 


But over winter months there were posts from elderly getting bills at that level £400pm iirc in one case for a quarter in Feb / Mar here - so it's not impossible.

So  - if you aren't  a high user in electric terms (**) either Mar wasn't right or Aug wasnt right - you need to try and spot or get help to spot  which from billing history and any recorded readings.

(**) That's more than a years use for many all electric homes.  Ofgem allowance was only 4200kWh.

So somethings gone wrong at some point.

So again check Mar £55 was with actual smart readings based bill deducted from balance.

But any historic data that allows you to challenge an estimate might yltimately be helpful too.

How long have you been with Octopus ?  Wonder how long their history goes back (have you checked on line if have an account setup ?)

TheMaverick000000

Phoned Octopus this morning. They claim that they have the final reading from the old meter.

The most up-to-date bill, which arrived in my e-mail last night, states:

26 Aug - 28 Aug 23

" On 26 Aug 2023 your previous balance was -£90

"We have charged you (VAT included):

Electricity (estimated) 5 June - 30 June  -£424.95

Electricity 1 July 30 July -£442.02

Electricity 24 Aug 27 Aug -£9.84

" On 28 Aug 2023 your new balance is -£966.81

You are paying £140.12 on the 1st of each month

From 08/09/2023, you'll be paying £199.15 on the 1st of each month"

I went through all my own bills going back to Jan this year, and the total amount I have paid them over that time, and up to the 8th of this month is £1099.96. Plus Government support scheme of £201.

This comes to £1300.96 paid to them so far this year. Now they want another £966.81? That would mean that the total bill, so far this year, comes to £2267.77. And I still have 4 months of bills to look forwards to.

I was unable to get anywhere with Octopus. They were adamant that the bill was correct.

So I spoke over the phone to my local Citizens Advice to seek knowledge as to what I should do next, as I believe that this bill cannot be correct.

They spoke with Octopus who informed them that they would have a closer look at my complaint, and I was told that they would get back to me within 5 days.

Many thanks for all your help so far.

I have just had a look at my hand meter, and it says that so far this week I have used £7.38 of electricity.

I now await a response from Octopus.

TheMaverick000000

Phoned Octopus this morning. They claim that they have the final reading from the old meter.

The most up-to-date bill, which arrived in my e-mail last night, states:

26 Aug - 28 Aug 23

" On 26 Aug 2023 your previous balance was -£90

"We have charged you (VAT included):

Electricity (estimated) 5 June - 30 June  -£424.95

Electricity 1 July 30 July -£442.02

Electricity 24 Aug 27 Aug -£9.84

" On 28 Aug 2023 your new balance is -£966.81

You are paying £140.12 on the 1st of each month

From 08/09/2023, you'll be paying £199.15 on the 1st of each month"

I went through all my own bills going back to Jan this year, and the total amount I have paid them over that time, and up to the 8th of this month is £1099.96. Plus Government support scheme of £201.

This comes to £1300.96 paid to them so far this year. Now they want another £966.81? That would mean that the total bill, so far this year, comes to £2267.77. And I still have 4 months of bills to look forwards to.

I was unable to get anywhere with Octopus. They were adamant that the bill was correct.

So I spoke over the phone to my local Citizens Advice to seek knowledge as to what I should do next, as I believe that this bill cannot be correct.

They spoke with Octopus who informed them that they would have a closer look at my complaint, and I was told that they would get back to me within 5 days.

Many thanks for all your help so far.

I have just had a look at my hand meter, and it says that so far this week I have used £7.38 of electricity.

I now await a response from Octopus.

Spoonie_Turtle

TheMaverick000000 said:

I went through all my own bills going back to Jan this year, and the total amount I have paid them over that time, and up to the 8th of this month is £1099.96. Plus Government support scheme of £201.

This comes to £1300.96 paid to them so far this year. Now they want another £966.81? That would mean that the total bill, so far this year, comes to £2267.77. And I still have 4 months of bills to look forwards to.

…

I have just had a look at my hand meter, and it says that so far this week I have used £7.38 of electricity.

I now await a response from Octopus.

No, you are not understanding the advice in this thread.  You need actual meter readings, you need to talk in kWh not £ because the price of energy has varied so much.

On the bills there are meter readings and kWh.  You - or someone to assist you - need to look at how many kWh were being used before your meters were changed and now after, to see if the usage is plausible.

Or if you're able to read the bills but don't fully understand what's what (which is fair, many people don't fully understand what their bills mean - I didn't myself before coming to this forum board and learning) then post the figures here.  Or even better, screenshots with identifying information redacted - that can be done easily in Microsoft Paint if you're on a PC.

However if not you are with a supplier who are reasonably well placed to help you, so hopefully Octopus plus CAB together can work it out and either correct the bills, or explain and reassure you why they are already correct.

Scot_39

£ alone  really  dont  help - they're just the output - and your period runs across at least one major price change if not 2 inc Oct smart meter 1 install
And the things that really matter here are actual kWh meter readings.

And whether they are consistent and believable for your typical use and seasonality (heating on / off if included).

Edit: And meter readers are not infallible - they can make mistakes - my last water meter bill came with a reading - a manual reading - despite it supposedly being a smart water meter - out by a factor of 4 from actual.

From which an old balance and reading in say Dec or Jan can be tracked through actual meter readings to feb or march, tgen estimate beyond, for the usage costs and  bills and  balances etc against your £140 inc vat DD.
And as I said above there's a chance a visit to the meter cabinet might find a card with their claimed numbers on it for old smart at end of July from meter engineer as a cross check to the corrected bill if you mistrust it.

But the idea that you would be using over £425 /442 per month from 5th Jun to 1st July and 1st July to 30th July seems off.  Or even more if that offset by £140(*).  But they might be trying to just correct over 1 bill in some strange way. CS at other firms sometimes do  try to me  strange things to get a correct number out that only at least in my mind -  obscures the true data and timeline.

And your £80 month to date sort of rate maybe more sensible.  £430 ave is nearing on the face of it 1400kWh per month  more if has had £140 dd credit been removed - c50 per day - massive for summer. 8kWh the Ofgem TDCV - thats around £3.00 inc SC - but excludes heating and possibly gas cooking etc. They are now saying your using c£2.50/3 per day last 3/4 days 24 to 27 Aug.


But lines saying balance and then "we have charged you" numbers - which suggests to me different things  that shouldnt - without adding in yuor DD credit - but they do add up.

As I assume you have been paying the £140 in July and Aug 1st in that time window.  So where does that fit into the say 425 balance change.


Would you be willing to post redacted (name address mpan meter serial numbers all deleted hidden by black highlighter etc ) rhe relavent sections of  bills shoeing any running  balance summary and the detailed readings and standing charges to £yy.xx usage costs section  how they computed the £90 and then this latest one adding another 870 debt.

Mines across the last Ofgem cap looked something like - but we will need your readings and costs - I just blanked mine - as only format / info expected guide.

And

Or explicitly give the text as it appears to derive the £425 /442 numbers as suspect that's after dd  credit not raw use on the balance summary pages in this case

I am on dual rate tarif so have two sets of readings as well.  85% only have one.

So 

Start Date     Reading  - reading type

End Date      Reading  - reading type

Xxxx kWh at  yy.yyy p/ kWh  =  £
N days at  zz.zz p standing charge =  £

And if meter split or Ofgem cap rate split - repeating

Start Date     Reading  - reading type

End Date      Reading  - reading type

Xxxx kWh at  yy.yyy p/ kWh  =  £

N days at  zz.zz p standing charge =  £

Vat = 
Total =


As I cannot really like you say see where the £140 DDs and the true raw unit charges are coming in those balances and 425/442 numbers - that add - but wouldn't if slotted in using EOns defs - normally. 

And then the sequence of dates and bill meter readings with e/m/s  reading type  as a min from Dec if monthly or Oct to Jan if 3 monthly etc onwards in kWh to latest



And begs the question where did they get the reading - I assume estimated - on 5th June for this massive correction. And of course how those numbers then compare to last actual old meter smart reading - from Feb or Mar 5th ?

And the winter usage rates then versus summer usage rates now since new meter.
(They would also have had to estimate the intermediate split readings number for 1st July new cap came in so tariff price dropped.)

So to help yourself did  you produce a summary table of 

Dates   kWh reading   type E/M/S Energy Used   Rate   SC   True Cost   Credit in Period Balance 

Where E/M/S = estimated  / measured / smart on my EOn bills

TheMaverick000000

Scot_39 said:

£ alone  really  dont  help - they're just the output - and your period runs across at least one major price change if not 2 inc Oct smart meter 1 install

And the things that really matter here are actual kWh meter readings.

And whether they are consistent and believable for your typical use and seasonality (heating on / off if included).

From which an old balance and reading in say Dec or Jan can be tracked through actual meter readings to feb or march, tgen estimate beyond, for the usage costs and  bills and  balances etc against your £140 inc vat DD.

And as I said above there's a chance a visit to the meter cabinet might find a card with their claimed numbers on it for old smart at end of July from meter engineer as a cross check to the corrected bill if you mistrust it.

But the idea that you would be using over £425 /442 per month from 5th Jun to 1st July and 1st July to 30th July seems off.  Or even more if that offset by £140(*).

But they might be trying to just correct over 1 bill in some strange way. CS at other firms sometimes do  try to me  strange things to get a correct number out that only at least in my mind -  obscures the true data and timeline.

And your £80 month to date sort of rate maybe more sensible.  £430 ave is nearing on the face of it 1400kWh per month  more if has had £140 dd credit been removed - c50 per day - massive for summer. 8kWh the Ofgem TDCV.

They are now saying your using c£2.50/3 per day last 3/4 days 24 to 27 Aug.


But lines saying balance and then "we have charged you" numbers - which suggests to me different things  that shouldnt - without adding in yuor DD credit - but they do add up.

As I assume you have been paying the £140 in July and Aug 1st in that time window.  So where does that fit into the say 425 balance change.


Would you be willing to post redacted (name address mpan meter serial numbers all deleted hidden by black highlighter etc ) rhe relavent sections of  bills shoeing any running  balance summary and the detailed readings and standing charges to £yy.xx usage costs section  how they computed the £90 and then this latest one adding another 870 debt.

Mines across the last Ofgem cap looked something like - but we will need your readings and costs - I just blanked mine - as only format / info expected guide.

And

Or explicitly give the text as it appears to derive the £425 /442 numbers as suspect that's after dd  credit not raw use on the balance summary pages in this case

I am on dual rate tarif so have two sets of readings as well.  You may only have one.

So 

Start Date Reading  - reading type

End Date Reading  - reading type

Xxxx kWh at  yy.yyy p/ kWh  =  £
N days at  zz.zz p standing charge =  £
Xxxx kWh at  yy.yyy p/ kWh  =  £
N days at  zz.zz p standing charge =  £

Vat = 
Total =


As I cannot really like you say see where the 140s and the raw unit charges are coming in those balances and 425/442 numbers. 

And then the sequence of dates and bill meter readings with e/m/s  reading type  as a min from Dec or Oct to Jan onwards in kWh to latest



And begs the question where did they get the reading - I assume estimated - on 5th June for this massive correction.

And of course how those numbers then compare to last actual old meter smart reading - from Feb or Mar 5th ?

And the winter usage rates then versus summerusage rates now since new meter.

(They would also have had to estimate the intermediate split readings number for 1st July new cap came in so tariff price dropped.)

So to help yourself did  you produce a summary table of 

Dates   kWh reading   type E/M/S Energy Used   Rate   SC   Balance 

Where E/M/S = estimated  / measured / smart on my EOn bills

Many thanks for that, Scot, I can see you put in a lot of work there on my behalf.

Please give me a couple of hours and I will try and get a more detailed update.

Regards.