Proving our delayed Lufthansa flight (LH1163) was their fault?

SamDude

Short version: we were told via the flight crew announcement that the 3+ hour delay was due to insufficient staff. I logged a flight delay claim but Lufthansa customer services are telling me it was due to ‘adverse weather’ and twice rejected my claim.

Longer version: My family and I were returning from Portugal on Tuesday last week (15th Aug), our flights with Lufthansa were LH1163 - Faro (FAO) to Frankfurt (FRA) and a connecting flight LH922 from Frankfurt (FRA) to London (LHR).

I saw on the boarding information screens that the LH1163 FAO-FRA flight would be 25 minutes late for take-off, this was not a big problem as we had a 2 hour stop in FRA.

Shortly after, the boarding information was updated to show a 3 hour delay for take-off. This meant we would definitely miss our connecting flight. No other flights were delayed so it was not a local airport issue, nor was it adverse weather issues in Faro.

I contacted Lufthansa via their app/website online chat – the multiple advisors I dealt with were less than helpful, the connection kept dropping out (using 4G data and airport wifi) and I was given incorrect information multiple times. This part of the events doesn’t really matter for this post, but the experience was rubbish.

A couple of hours later (still at FAO airport departures) I received an automated email from Lufthansa confirming that we would miss our connecting flight, and provided options for overnight hotel accommodation (there were no other flights available the same day) and to rebook our flights for the next morning. I made the selections and was relieved that we could get on the 3 hour delayed flight to FRA knowing that we had things under control.

When boarding the FAO-FRA flight, the flight crew were making the pre-flight announcements and said that the flight delay was due to insufficient staff to run the flight on time. This was within Lufthansa’s control/responsibility, so I knew that I would be able to claim for the delay once I got home.

Our original FAO – FRA – LHR flight should have left FAO at 15.30, but it left at 18.34.

We should have arrived at LHR at 22.10 (same day), but we arrived the next morning (Wed 16th) at 07.45.

On our return, I put in a claim and received a response by email within a couple of hours, which stated:

“According to our records, there was a flight delayed on the flight in dispute due to adverse weather condition.
Unfortunately, an orderly flight execution was not possible against this background and the flight cancellation was clearly beyond our control. Regulation (EC) No. 261/2004 does not provide for compensation payments in this case, and we cannot meet your request for compensation for these reasons.“

This was incorrect, so I replied and stated again that the reason for the delay being insufficient staff. They responded again with the ‘adverse weather’ rejection.

I have checked the local weather at the time in Faro and Frankfurt (and Tel Aviv, which is where the aircraft was coming from). There was no weather issues - so why do they keep stating this is the reason my compensation cannot be accepted?

How can I prove what the pre-flight announcement was? If I have to escalate, will they be forthcoming with the reason we were told, and to accept responsibility? 

(follow-up question – is this typical where Lufthansa/any other airlines bluff and reject claims hoping that you ‘go away’?)

eskbanker

When there are two contradictory explanations for a delay, it doesn't necessarily follow that the one you were told on the day is the right one and the other one wrong, even though the former obviously favours you at the airline's expense, so the acid test really is establishing the truth.

Adverse weather is vague though, so it's not unreasonable for you to ask them for much more detail as to exactly what weather conditions they're referring to and where they applied.  The aircraft operating your flight was delayed at Frankfurt, arriving there on time from Tel Aviv but not leaving for Faro until 3:25 hours late, so the disruption would appear to have been at their home base.

If/when you escalate to the German ADR, they'll be required to supply evidence....

Westin

Wasn’t that the time of the floods in parts of Germany, including Frankfurt Airport?
https://youtu.be/zYQTUVTgGiU

SamDude

Westin said:

Wasn’t that the time of the floods in parts of Germany, including Frankfurt Airport?
https://youtu.be/zYQTUVTgGiU

I didn't know about the floods - but from the reports, they occurred on the evening of the 16th Aug, which is after our flight home.
We were delayed on the 15th Aug, and rebooked for 07.00am on the 16th Aug.

ScottWelschEFC

Hi there,

Sorry to hear about your ordeal with Lufthansa. It's frustrating when there's a clear discrepancy between what you've been told on board and the airline's subsequent response to your claim.

From your detailed account, it seems like you have a strong case. In situations like this, where an airline may be providing conflicting reasons for the delay, using a flight compensation company can be beneficial. These companies specialize in pursuing flight compensation claims and have the resources and knowledge to contest such discrepancies. If they believe your case is strong, they will fight for your claim, often at no upfront cost to you. They typically work on a "no win, no fee" basis and will take a percentage of the compensation once successful.

You might want to check out some reputable compensation companies to handle your claim. They can deal with the intricacies and pushback from the airline, reducing the stress and effort on your part. Given the information you've provided, it seems there's a good chance you're eligible for compensation. Also, to your follow-up question: yes, sometimes airlines might push back initially, hoping claimants drop the case. But with the right backing, you can pursue what you're rightfully owed.

Best of luck with your claim!

rigolith

Don't waste your money on a claim company, start by checking if their adverse weather claim is true. For example: https://meteostat.net/en/station/10637?t=2023-08-16/2023-08-16

lolamancity

The very helpful guy above with 1 post is almost certainly from a claim company and they're akin to ambulance chasers, as your issue would almost certainly qualify for compensation, not surprised to see replies like his, easy money isn't it! Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, apply to the arbitrator (Söp I think it'll be), you're just wasting your time with Lufthansa, from my extensive research, the weather excuse is usually favoured as a response to complaints, probably because it's hard to prove otherwise. SÖP will require Lufthansa to prove their weather claim since they're so adamant, you just make sure you detail the contrary reason communicated to you on the day in detail on your claim and see how it pans out with SÖP, which takes around 4-8 months. I'm currently doing the same. 

SamDude

lolamancity said:

The very helpful guy above with 1 post is almost certainly from a claim company and they're akin to ambulance chasers, as your issue would almost certainly qualify for compensation, not surprised to see replies like his, easy money isn't it! Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, apply to the arbitrator (Söp I think it'll be), you're just wasting your time with Lufthansa, from my extensive research, the weather excuse is usually favoured as a response to complaints, probably because it's hard to prove otherwise. SÖP will require Lufthansa to prove their weather claim since they're so adamant, you just make sure you detail the contrary reason communicated to you on the day in detail on your claim and see how it pans out with SÖP, which takes around 4-8 months. I'm currently doing the same. 

@lolamancity - thanks, yes I did figure our first time poster has a vested interest in this type of claim....

@rigolith - thanks - the website you provided confirms that there was nothing unusual at the time - and the floods at FRA occurred well after we got home.

I have sent Lufthansa a 14 day deadline to accept my claim, or to provide evidence of the adverse weather conditions - which the useful website that If they don't reply or it is not accepted, I have told them that I will go down the SÖP route - the online form looks to be straightforward.

Out of interest, what was your circumstances for your claim with Lufthansa?

lolamancity

My issues were with Brussels airlines who I think are under the lufthansa group... We missed a connecting flight due to a delay incurred from waiting for missing passengers. From what I've gathered, these airlines behave in a fairly textbook way when it comes to delays and denial of compensation. Make sure you keep all your screenshots for proof for when you raise the claim through SÖP, the more evidence the better, especially as this process is so drawn out 

SamDude

After giving Lufthansa 14 days to respond (after they rejected my claim twice), I have escalated to the ADR (SÖP).
I've had a "don't call us for 3 months, we'll call you" acknowledgement, so the wait continues...

rigolith

Thanks for keeping us updated.