A couple of questions about gantry signage and speed limits

boxosox

Car_54 said:

prowla said:

Car_54 said:

la531983 said:

If they signs are blank, its NSL. Cant believe you drove miles at 40 with no alternative speed on display!

Not every gantry has a speed camera btw, these are the yellow boxes at the side of some of them, easy to know if one has flashed you or not.

I dont believe cameras deal with people driving in lanes where X's are displayed, this would be a police matter if spotted, I am happy to be put right on this point though.

No, a blank sign has no meaning at all. The previously displayed speed limit applies until you see a sign to the contrary. 

And the gantry cameras do indeed capture vehicles in closed lanes.

Do you have link to that, eg. in the Highway Code?

I can give you a link to the HC, but you will search it in vain for any reference to a blank sign. The only possible signs indicating the end of a speed limit are:
-   A sign imposing a different limit
-  The NSL sign (white disc with black diagonal)
-  The 'End of roadworks' sign
-  The 'End of motorway' sign

Didn't know this.  There wasn't an "end of roadworks" sign, but I didn't know that also reset the speed limit.

la531983

boxosox said:

Legally, is there a point one can assume that NSL is now active?  Or could I be done for speeding?

Just to return to this....done for speeding how?
Were you stopped on the night by a police vehicle?
Was a police vehicle on the side of the road or over a bridge in a van doing checks? (unlikely at night, and this would be checks based on the published speed limit of the road anyway, which is the NSL)
The gantry camera wont be flashing anyone going under 70mph when the gantries say nothing at all. So how will you be "done" there?

You are over thinking this. To be fair I am chuckling that you were contemplating going 40mph on a motorway for fifteen miles for no reason

boxosox

la531983 said:

boxosox said:

Legally, is there a point one can assume that NSL is now active?  Or could I be done for speeding?

Just to return to this....done for speeding how?
Were you stopped on the night by a police vehicle?
Was a police vehicle on the side of the road or over a bridge in a van doing checks? (unlikely at night, and this would be checks based on the published speed limit of the road anyway, which is the NSL)
The gantry camera wont be flashing anyone going under 70mph when the gantries say nothing at all. So how will you be "done" there?

You are over thinking this. To be fair I am chuckling that you were contemplating going 40mph on a motorway for fifteen miles for no reason

Speed camera, police car... however people normally get clocked speeding.  I'm no expert, just a driver.

I try to abide by the rules of the road - if the last sign I passed was a 40mph sign, the law tells me the limit is 40mph until told otherwise.  

If I were stopped by the police for doing 70 in a 40, would "I assumed it was NSL as the gantry was off" be an acceptable defence?  What distance is acceptable to assume?

For all I knew, the roadworks were due to stretch for several miles but they had only just started putting out cones.  For all I knew the NSL might have been displayed several miles further along.

Money_Grabber13579

Car_54 said:

la531983 said:

If they signs are blank, its NSL. Cant believe you drove miles at 40 with no alternative speed on display!

Not every gantry has a speed camera btw, these are the yellow boxes at the side of some of them, easy to know if one has flashed you or not.

I dont believe cameras deal with people driving in lanes where X's are displayed, this would be a police matter if spotted, I am happy to be put right on this point though.

No, a blank sign has no meaning at all. The previously displayed speed limit applies until you see a sign to the contrary. 

And the gantry cameras do indeed capture vehicles in closed lanes.

I wonder is it fair to assume though that if the gantary is showing no speed limit, any camera attaching to the gantary has also not been set to any speed limit other than NSL? Agree though that the a reasonable interpretation would be that a limit continues until shown otherwise, which is pretty unsatisfactory if no further limit is shown and possibly leaves you open to being caught for speeding (even if not by the camera on the gantary itself).

Grumpy_chap

Red X signs for lane closed are enforced by camera:
https://nationalhighways.co.uk/road-safety/red-x/
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/car-industry-news/2023/02/03/red-x-warning-after-thousands-of-drivers-prosecuted

I am actually with the OP on this one.  If the gantry signage reads 40 mph and there is no signage to revert back to NSL, then the limit remains 40 mph.  It is possible that the OP missed the NSL sign, or just that gantry was out for some reason.  There comes a point where you have to take a judgement call that you did miss the NSL sign and then speed up but I doubt that would stand up in court.

Car_54

Money_Grabber13579 said:

Car_54 said:

la531983 said:

If they signs are blank, its NSL. Cant believe you drove miles at 40 with no alternative speed on display!

Not every gantry has a speed camera btw, these are the yellow boxes at the side of some of them, easy to know if one has flashed you or not.

I dont believe cameras deal with people driving in lanes where X's are displayed, this would be a police matter if spotted, I am happy to be put right on this point though.

No, a blank sign has no meaning at all. The previously displayed speed limit applies until you see a sign to the contrary. 

And the gantry cameras do indeed capture vehicles in closed lanes.

I wonder is it fair to assume though that if the gantary is showing no speed limit, any camera attaching to the gantary has also not been set to any speed limit other than NSL? Agree though that the a reasonable interpretation would be that a limit continues until shown otherwise, which is pretty unsatisfactory if no further limit is shown and possibly leaves you open to being caught for speeding (even if not by the camera on the gantary itself).

It's seldom safe to assume anything!

TooManyPoints

Strictly speaking, on a variable speed limit motorway, a reduced limit applies until a gantry sign changes it, or the end of the variable speed limit section is denoted.

However, on almost all VSL motorways (and certainly on the M25), speed limits are enforced by HADEC3 cameras. These devices take a photo of the offending vehicle and simultaneously take a shot of the gantry display. They are also synchronised to enforce the limit as displayed on the gantry.

So the chances of being detected by such a camera is nil. The chances of being detected by another method is low, but I would warn against expecting "common sense" to play a part in enforcement decisions taken by the police. 

sevenhills

Grumpy_chap said:

I am actually with the OP on this one.  If the gantry signage reads 40 mph and there is no signage to revert back to NSL, then the limit remains 40 mph.  It is possible that the OP missed the NSL sign, or just that gantry was out for some reason.  There comes a point where you have to take a judgement call that you did miss the NSL sign and then speed up but I doubt that would stand up in court.

I don't get how any gantry or temporary speed limit is enforceable, unless there is a photo of the vehicle speeding and the sign.

If I get a speeding ticket, how can innocence or guilt be proved either way?

Car_54

sevenhills said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I am actually with the OP on this one.  If the gantry signage reads 40 mph and there is no signage to revert back to NSL, then the limit remains 40 mph.  It is possible that the OP missed the NSL sign, or just that gantry was out for some reason.  There comes a point where you have to take a judgement call that you did miss the NSL sign and then speed up but I doubt that would stand up in court.

I don't get how any gantry or temporary speed limit is enforceable, unless there is a photo of the vehicle speeding and the sign.

If I get a speeding ticket, how can innocence or guilt be proved either way?

sevenhills said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I am actually with the OP on this one.  If the gantry signage reads 40 mph and there is no signage to revert back to NSL, then the limit remains 40 mph.  It is possible that the OP missed the NSL sign, or just that gantry was out for some reason.  There comes a point where you have to take a judgement call that you did miss the NSL sign and then speed up but I doubt that would stand up in court.

I don't get how any gantry or temporary speed limit is enforceable, unless there is a photo of the vehicle speeding and the sign.

If I get a speeding ticket, how can innocence or guilt be proved either way?

If there’s a photo, it will show both your car and the sign. 

Otherwise, an officer’s statement is valid evidence. Whether it’s “proof” is a decision for the court.

[Deleted User]

What's the etiquette for letting people who leave it late into your lane?

If they are polite and don't barge I might allow it, but if it's an SUV/BMW/Audi... No way.