A couple of questions about gantry signage and speed limits

Car_54

la531983 said:

If they signs are blank, its NSL. Cant believe you drove miles at 40 with no alternative speed on display!

Not every gantry has a speed camera btw, these are the yellow boxes at the side of some of them, easy to know if one has flashed you or not.

I dont believe cameras deal with people driving in lanes where X's are displayed, this would be a police matter if spotted, I am happy to be put right on this point though.

No, a blank sign has no meaning at all. The previously displayed speed limit applies until you see a sign to the contrary. 

And the gantry cameras do indeed capture vehicles in closed lanes.

la531983

boxosox said:

la531983 said:

user1977 said:

la531983 said:

If they signs are blank, its NSL.

Do you have a cite for that? If the gantry sign after a 40 limit is blank, I would assume it's faulty, not that you're legally in the clear to go back to 70.

You want me to find a cite to say that if a sign at Mile 0 says 40, and then subsequently every sign for miles afterwards are blank (as has happened here), that its fine to drive at NSL?

Surely this is just common sense. What about cars joining the motorway after the last 40 sign?

Now, if its just ONE sign missing between two 40 signs, thats entirely different.

There are digital signs on the slip roads displaying the variable limit in force, so they would be shown 40mph also.

Or, at least, that's my understanding

Only if it was actually a 40 in force. He drove for FIFTEEN MILES without a single 40 sign, its as clear as day it wasnt a 40 limit either for him or any cars joining.

All thats happened here is the numpty in the control centre forgot to whack the NSL sign up to end the 40 limit. Unless you are now going to argue that the 40 limit still applied around the entire M25 in the direction he was going until he hit the Dartford crossing, even for traffic coming onto the motorway?

No gantry camera would flash if it was blank and he was going 70 anyway, so it's moot. 

jimjames

la531983 said:

user1977 said:

la531983 said:

If they signs are blank, its NSL.

Do you have a cite for that? If the gantry sign after a 40 limit is blank, I would assume it's faulty, not that you're legally in the clear to go back to 70.

What about cars joining the motorway after the last 40 sign?

This is a really good point. If you go past a junction and no sign on motorway showing anything to indicate a different speed to NSL for traffic joining then I think you can safely assume that it's NSL.

la531983

jimjames said:

la531983 said:

user1977 said:

la531983 said:

If they signs are blank, its NSL.

Do you have a cite for that? If the gantry sign after a 40 limit is blank, I would assume it's faulty, not that you're legally in the clear to go back to 70.

What about cars joining the motorway after the last 40 sign?

This is a really good point. If you go past a junction and no sign on motorway showing anything to indicate a different speed to NSL for traffic joining then I think you can safely assume that it's NSL.

Exactly, can't believe anyone is prepared to argue otherwise.

One sign off between two signs showing 40 - aye maybe go through at 40 to be on the safe side. But 15 miles of no signs? Come on, lads and lasses. 

Car_54

la531983 said:

jimjames said:

la531983 said:

user1977 said:

la531983 said:

If they signs are blank, its NSL.

Do you have a cite for that? If the gantry sign after a 40 limit is blank, I would assume it's faulty, not that you're legally in the clear to go back to 70.

What about cars joining the motorway after the last 40 sign?

This is a really good point. If you go past a junction and no sign on motorway showing anything to indicate a different speed to NSL for traffic joining then I think you can safely assume that it's NSL.

Exactly, can't believe anyone is prepared to argue otherwise.

One sign off between two signs showing 40 - aye maybe go through at 40 to be on the safe side. But 15 miles of no signs? Come on, lads and lasses. 

Indeed. Where a default limit does not apply, there must be repeater signs. There is no longer a minimum distance between them, but the limit must be 'adequately conveyed', which is normally met by the next gantry.

So even if the limit was intended to be in force, there would be a good defence.

Nobbie1967

boxosox said:

RandomTourist said:

Red X over the lane is equivalent to a red traffic light. Lane is closed at the first red-X gantry. Camera enforced. There's been a biggish publicity campaign about this. Likely outcome an awareness course or conditional offer of fixed penalty and 3 points, just as for traffic lights.

This is what I thought.  Seems odd that they allow the roadworkers to put out contradictory signage.  Just before the red X was a sign saying the lanes closed in 400yds.

Looks like the metal signs indicate physical closing of lane where you cannot continue to proceed because of cones etc, whereas the signs indicate the legal closing of the lane after which you will be subject to penalty.

prowla

Car_54 said:

la531983 said:

If they signs are blank, its NSL. Cant believe you drove miles at 40 with no alternative speed on display!

Not every gantry has a speed camera btw, these are the yellow boxes at the side of some of them, easy to know if one has flashed you or not.

I dont believe cameras deal with people driving in lanes where X's are displayed, this would be a police matter if spotted, I am happy to be put right on this point though.

No, a blank sign has no meaning at all. The previously displayed speed limit applies until you see a sign to the contrary. 

And the gantry cameras do indeed capture vehicles in closed lanes.

Do you have link to that, eg. in the Highway Code?

unforeseen

If there is no repeater sign the speed resorts to NSL at the point a repeater sign should have been placed unless the street furniture dictates otherwise. 

Car_54

prowla said:

Car_54 said:

la531983 said:

If they signs are blank, its NSL. Cant believe you drove miles at 40 with no alternative speed on display!

Not every gantry has a speed camera btw, these are the yellow boxes at the side of some of them, easy to know if one has flashed you or not.

I dont believe cameras deal with people driving in lanes where X's are displayed, this would be a police matter if spotted, I am happy to be put right on this point though.

No, a blank sign has no meaning at all. The previously displayed speed limit applies until you see a sign to the contrary. 

And the gantry cameras do indeed capture vehicles in closed lanes.

Do you have link to that, eg. in the Highway Code?

I can give you a link to the HC, but you will search it in vain for any reference to a blank sign. The only possible signs indicating the end of a speed limit are:
-   A sign imposing a different limit
-  The NSL sign (white disc with black diagonal)
-  The 'End of roadworks' sign
-  The 'End of motorway' sign

Car_54

unforeseen said:

If there is no repeater sign the speed resorts to NSL at the point a repeater sign should have been placed unless the street furniture dictates otherwise. 

How would you know where the repeater sign should have been placed, given that there is no specified distance?

The absence of repeaters(s) does not change the limit, but it may provide a defence for anyone prosecuted.