UK Parking Control - Notice to Hirer receieved, can parking company go back to RK if notice to hire

KeithP

taffer87 said:

Draft appeal here:

Welcome comemnts - added #7 which I couldn't find in other places

UKPC appeal draft 0.2.pdf

"I am the appellant throughout (as I am entitled to be)...".

Of course you are the appellant throughout. You are the one appealing.

Did you mean to say...
"I am the keeper throughout (as I am entitled to be)..."?

taffer87

Fruitcake said:

UKPC are not obliged to send you a copy of the NTK because you are not the keeper, but getting it from the hire company has helped because you are now able to use your point 7.

Para 4 should refer to the signs in the ParkingEye v Beavis case.

Remove "defined as" from para 5. Homeguard is spelled incorrectly. 

Otherwise it looks okay to me.

I understand POFA requires UKPC to send me the original notice to keeper as below in bold

understood on other points

Yes, re #7 they even issued the notice to hirer within 28 days so that alone 

but truth be told.. UKPC never actually issued a windscreen parking charge (to the driver/left on vehicle), they just said they did in one of the letters but this does provide further ammunition
"Paragraph 14 (2) (a) specifies that in addition to delivering a Notice to Hirer within the relevant period, the Creditor must also provide the Hirer with a copy of the documents mentioned in Paragraph 13(2) (i.e. (a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b) a copy of the hire agreement; and (c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement), together with a copy of the Notice to Keeper"

Thanks for the other pointers

taffer87

KeithP said:

taffer87 said:

Draft appeal here:

Welcome comemnts - added #7 which I couldn't find in other places

UKPC appeal draft 0.2.pdf

"I am the appellant throughout (as I am entitled to be)...".

Of course you are the appellant throughout. You are the one appealing.

Did you mean to say...
"I am the keeper throughout (as I am entitled to be)..."?

Thanks changed it to:

Where a charge is aimed only at a driver then, of course, no other party can be told to pay. I am the hirer throughout and appealing as being a hirer (as I am entitled to), and as there has been no admission regarding who was driving, and no evidence has been produced, it has been held by POPLA on numerous occasions, that a parking charge cannot be enforced against a hirer without a valid NTH.

Hope works better

Umkomaas

taffer87 said:

Fruitcake said:

UKPC are not obliged to send you a copy of the NTK because you are not the keeper, but getting it from the hire company has helped because you are now able to use your point 7.

Para 4 should refer to the signs in the ParkingEye v Beavis case.

Remove "defined as" from para 5. Homeguard is spelled incorrectly. 

Otherwise it looks okay to me.

I understand POFA requires UKPC to send me the original notice to keeper as below in bold

understood on other points

Yes, re #7 they even issued the notice to hirer within 28 days so that alone 

but truth be told.. UKPC never actually issued a windscreen parking charge (to the driver/left on vehicle), they just said they did in one of the letters but this does provide further ammunition
"Paragraph 14 (2) (a) specifies that in addition to delivering a Notice to Hirer within the relevant period, the Creditor must also provide the Hirer with a copy of the documents mentioned in Paragraph 13(2) (i.e. (a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b) a copy of the hire agreement; and (c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement), **together with a copy of the Notice to Keeper"**

Thanks for the other pointers

Not sure I've seen that stipulation in paras 13/14. Where has it come from?

Castle

It's 14(2)(A)

(2)The conditions are that—
(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

KeithP

Umkomaas said:

taffer87 said:

Fruitcake said:

UKPC are not obliged to send you a copy of the NTK because you are not the keeper, but getting it from the hire company has helped because you are now able to use your point 7.

Para 4 should refer to the signs in the ParkingEye v Beavis case.

Remove "defined as" from para 5. Homeguard is spelled incorrectly. 

Otherwise it looks okay to me.

I understand POFA requires UKPC to send me the original notice to keeper as below in bold

understood on other points

Yes, re #7 they even issued the notice to hirer within 28 days so that alone 

but truth be told.. UKPC never actually issued a windscreen parking charge (to the driver/left on vehicle), they just said they did in one of the letters but this does provide further ammunition
"Paragraph 14 (2) (a) specifies that in addition to delivering a Notice to Hirer within the relevant period, the Creditor must also provide the Hirer with a copy of the documents mentioned in Paragraph 13(2) (i.e. (a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b) a copy of the hire agreement; and (c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement), **together with a copy of the Notice to Keeper"**

Thanks for the other pointers

Not sure I've seen that stipulation in paras 13/14. Where has it come from?

It's worded slightly differently in the legislation but POFA para 14(2) does say...

(2) The conditions are that—
(a) the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

...see the last five words there.

Umkomaas

Castle said:

It's 14(2)(A)

(2)The conditions are that—
(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

KeithP said:

Umkomaas said:

taffer87 said:

Fruitcake said:

UKPC are not obliged to send you a copy of the NTK because you are not the keeper, but getting it from the hire company has helped because you are now able to use your point 7.

Para 4 should refer to the signs in the ParkingEye v Beavis case.

Remove "defined as" from para 5. Homeguard is spelled incorrectly. 

Otherwise it looks okay to me.

I understand POFA requires UKPC to send me the original notice to keeper as below in bold

understood on other points

Yes, re #7 they even issued the notice to hirer within 28 days so that alone 

but truth be told.. UKPC never actually issued a windscreen parking charge (to the driver/left on vehicle), they just said they did in one of the letters but this does provide further ammunition
"Paragraph 14 (2) (a) specifies that in addition to delivering a Notice to Hirer within the relevant period, the Creditor must also provide the Hirer with a copy of the documents mentioned in Paragraph 13(2) (i.e. (a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b) a copy of the hire agreement; and (c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement), **together with a copy of the Notice to Keeper"**

Thanks for the other pointers

Not sure I've seen that stipulation in paras 13/14. Where has it come from?

It's worded slightly differently in the legislation but POFA para 14(2) does say...

(2) The conditions are that—
(a) the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

...see the last five words there.

SpecSavers tomorrow. Believe me, I searched for the words. Wood and trees! 😄

Fruitcake

I didn't miss those words, but I misread the quote from the PoPLA assessor as being a response to the OP, not a reference to a previous case where the PPC said they weren't relying on the PoFA therefore they wouldn't need to supply a copy of the NTK.

I blame the aftershocks of Virus number 19 having affected my cognitive abilities. 

taffer87

Boom, success!  Just got the email that operator has withdrawn appeal. Thanks for the help!

"The operator has contacted us and told us that they have withdrawn your appeal.

If you have already paid your parking charge, this is the reason your appeal will have been withdrawn. Unfortunately, you cannot pay your parking charge and appeal, which means that POPLA’s involvement in your appeal has ended. You will not be able to request a refund of the amount paid in order to resubmit your appeal to us.

If you have not paid your parking charge, the operator has reviewed your appeal and chosen to cancel the parking charge. As the operator has withdrawn your appeal, POPLA’s involvement has now ended and you do not need to take any further action.

Kind regards

POPLA Team"