Advisability of buying electric car at this point in time

Goudy

I don't think in these two cases it's all about efficiency. 
It's more being able to carry around enough power to be cost effective.

A set of batteries in say a HGV that has to run a reefer might be really efficient over a small range, but less cost effective over larger ranges due to things like weight and down time from charging.

There's only a finite weight a HGV can legally be, the more batteries the less cargo which equals more cost.

Just look at a car transporter, it's much more cost effective to carry an extra car than it loses because it's less efficient due to the extra weight.

Same goes plant or farm vehicles that mostly work off grid, BEV may work efficiently for short periods of time, but will they be efficient for long enough to be cost effective.

Adding more because of shorter work range/hours isn't cost effect or even efficient.

My whole point, back in the very beginning is that the batteries aren't the whole answer and if we only really invest in them, it'll cost us all, dearly.
Yes batteries are getting better as is charging them, I don't doubt that, but we still have the same age old problems with them we had years ago.
The ability to store enough power either by size or weight, for our demands has always been a limitation, otherwise we'd all have been in electric vehicles since the late 1800's.


And I am sorry but these two examples aren't edge cases, far from it.
I take it that was just a mistaken remark rather than something more flippant, but it couldn't be more further from the truth.

Food production, food transport and building are integral to our whole economy.
We all eat, so that needs to be produced and transported and we all shop for that produce.

We all live somewhere that has to be built and most of our wealth is invested in it.
Our the property market is closely linked to our economy in a way nothing else comes close to.
We need hospitals and roads and leisure facilities and on and on and on.

If that's edge, what is main stream?

Herzlos

henry24 said:

That might work if the truck comes back to base every day but what about the one's on the road all week 

Why does it only need to be dealt with at a base? You could change batteries at a service stop.

If you wanted to find solutions and not problems then there are all sorts of things you could do.

Of course, you'd still be much better off using rail for the long distance stuff and trucks for the last few miles.

Herzlos

shinytop said:

 I really can't think how EVs are superior to ICEVs.

Faster, quieter, more power/torque/responsiveness, cheaper to run, (with suitable charging) it's always fully fuelled, doesn't need air intakes so can be more aerodynamic,  more reliable, better handling, less polluting, and can be used to power other electrical items.

Other than the edge case of non-stop-huge-miles-huge-load driving, is there any case where an ICEV is better than an EV?

Goudy

Another efficiency/cost effective example.

LVEC make the new black taxi, why is it a plug in hybrid rather than all electric?

It's no bigger than a large car, plenty of BEV versions of them on the market.
Its trips are generally short, around the city mostly, perhaps a trip to the airport of 12 miles or so.
As we know BEV's are more efficient and less polluting.

So why is it a hybrid?
Is it because, even a vehicle this small, that has to run on and off say only 8 or 10 hours a day more cost effective than a BEV?

What does one weigh loaded, 2 tonnes or so.
It's internal temperature for load, 18 to 22 c.
 
So times up it's weight by 22 and drop the internal temp by 50 c.
Would that be cost effective?

WellKnownSid

These conversations remind me of the early days of the Compact Disc.

Early adopters got laughed at for paying £300 for a player and £15 per disc.

Long-haired hippy types declared that vinyl was so much better.

Those who'd paid £300 for a compact disc player declared that the sound was 'so much better' than their £20 turntable from Woolies or their £15 mono PYE cassette player.  Yes, both better and ironic all at the same time.

Years later, the subject is moot because in the end we've all ended up streaming anyway - an experience that means I can listen to what I want, when I want it.

In 30 years time cars will probably drive themselves and we won't even be allowed to drive without a £1m / year specialist 'self-drive' insurance policy.

That's progress.  Continuous improvement, life moves on.

mgfvvc

henry24 said:

You're sounding like the sort of person that needs the government to tell you that the sun may be hot or you might get wet when it rains 

Abuse replacing rational argument.
I'm sorry to see that here, but that's just the nature of this discussion.

Herzlos

Goudy said:

LVEC make the new black taxi, why is it a plug in hybrid rather than all electric?

I'm looking at the website now and it seems to be a range extender hybrid?

So it's battery powered (~78 miles range) with a range extender to bring it up to ~330 miles which probably suits the taxi's use case a lot better which is a lot of short journeys with the odd long one thrown in. The inability to plan for that means they'd want to keep a pure BEV near fully charged all of the time which isn't practical.

Maybe that'll change if there are more facilities to charge whilst waiting.

There are definitely cases now where a BEV doesn't make sense, but I don't believe they apply to more than a single digit percentage of car owners.

henry24

mgfvvc said:

henry24 said:

You're sounding like the sort of person that needs the government to tell you that the sun may be hot or you might get wet when it rains 

Abuse replacing rational argument.
I'm sorry to see that here, but that's just the nature of this discussion.

Not at all,  I said that we shouldn't be told what vehicle we can drive and should be able to choose it was you who replied with no mot or safety I never mentioned it

mgfvvc

henry24 said:

mgfvvc said:

henry24 said:

You're sounding like the sort of person that needs the government to tell you that the sun may be hot or you might get wet when it rains 

Abuse replacing rational argument.
I'm sorry to see that here, but that's just the nature of this discussion.

Not at all,  I said that we shouldn't be told what vehicle we can drive and should be able to choose it was you who replied with no mot or safety I never mentioned it

My point was that we are already told what vehicles we can drive.
If you think that your response is a rational argument, then I suggest you read it again.

henry24

How are we told currently I can walk into any garage and buy any car I want but in a few years I can only buy electric where's my choice