Advisability of buying electric car at this point in time

CKhalvashi

Ibrahim5 said:

There's some bonkers stuff made up on this thread. Petrol and diesel engines don't become less efficient or powerful with age.

You hadn't driven one of moms old Focii (she had 2, the second one struggled to get up the hill from her house in the last months she had it). I can't remember the mileage, but it was indicated 125k at last MoT. We both suspect from previous MoT fault history that it had done at least double that (same issue on tests at 55, 61, 78 and 97k (2008/9/11/13) on a 25-30k maintenance item, so betting it had actually averaged 25k+/year over those 6 years, she purchased it with indicated 103k, which was likely closer to 200k at a minimum).

Her Spark seemed very gutless before someone wrote it off, but it was only 60bhp so that one may be my memory fading rather than a problem with the car.

Martyn1981

Ibrahim5 said:

There's some bonkers stuff made up on this thread. Petrol and diesel engines don't become less efficient or powerful with age.

Engineering Explained is a great source of information such as this. He also produces detailed articles for car magazines. I'll add a 5min vid.

But GIYF and there are 100's of articles explaining how power and efficiency is lost as engines (and other components) wear and age.

10 Reasons Why Engines Lose Power Over Time

Ibrahim5

They just need to be properly maintained. Very cheap and easy to do that. Of course people that can't be bothered to do that will have problems.

CKhalvashi

Ibrahim5 said:

They just need to be properly maintained. Very cheap and easy to do that. Of course people that can't be bothered to do that will have problems.

Ibrahim, you seem very anti-EV for some reason despite my own experience with mine being very good, the same for others I generally speak to.

Is there a reason for this? I'm interested to learn your experiences with EVs. My EV is very well maintained and operated in a way specifically to extend the battery life from what we know. The battery has held up better than I'd expect so far on this basis, so surely your logic works both ways?.

Ibrahim5

The batteries on an EV continuously deteriorate. It's rubbish to suggest that the power and economy of ICE vehicles follows a similar pattern. It just doesn't.

CKhalvashi

Ibrahim5 said:

The batteries on an EV continuously deteriorate. It's rubbish to suggest that the power and economy of ICE vehicles follows a similar pattern. It just doesn't.

Re EV's, I didn't say they don't, nobody else here has said they don't. I've been perfectly clear that my car has lost a little range from new and have also been perfectly clear on what I expect that range loss to be in the future.

Re ICE, I've given experience of power loss at mileage unknown. Top Gear has documented similar in the past although in more scientific and independent conditions but without an indication of the true new power (although I'd deem it to be close to declared in most cars). Despite being an entertainment show which was more at that point about 3 men travelling around the world having fun than anything else, I would deem the testing used on those occasions to have factual and scientific value.

I also note that despite more rambling on what everyone has been perfectly clear about, you haven't answered the question I asked you, so I'll ask again, just as I try to understand to your viewpoint.

What is your personal experience with EVs?

mgfvvc

shinytop said:

I really can't think how EVs are superior to ICEVs.

OK. I'll bite.

Obviously not poisoning the residents on busy urban roads is a big plus.

Vastly improved efficiency. Around 90% of energy utilised against 20-35% in ICE.

Mechanical simplicity. You don't need a gearbox, the motor has very few moving parts and doesn't need an inefficient cooling system.

Much lower maintenance due to the mechanical simplicity.

Improved balance due to having the weight spread out and low down.

As someone with my own drive, the ability to charge on my drive 90% of the time instead of having to find a petrol station will be a plus when I go electric.

Lower fire risk. I'm not sure if the data here is reliable or comparable, but it is claimed that the number of EV fires, per unit is about 1/10 of the rate for ICE vehicles.

The only real down sides of EVs, that I see, are the charging time,the battery weight and the difficulty in putting out battery fires when they do happen. The first two are improving all the time, as is battery safety.

Goudy

I'll bite on the term "anti EV" and the way it is now getting used.
Just because something isn't viable for various reasons and someone expresses that, doesn't make them anti.

As a form of transport, a boat is more than useless to me and a lot of others, but we're not all anti boat.
I cycle for fun, people run for fun but it can be useless as a form of everyday transport for many, so are we anti cycling and anti running?
I have a nut allergy but I'm not anti nut.

There are those that obviously find EV's suit them and there are others that have worked out that at the moment, they don't.
If you are trying to convince someone, the argument loses credibility rolling out the anti slogan as some sort of insult or argument ender.
Please, those that do read it back or hear yourselves.    

My concern is why I would have to pay 4 or 5 times what others pay in fuel just because of where I live.
Even more so as it is available in my own home for 4 or 5 times less, but I can't access that to power up a car.

I am anti that.
It doesn't matter to me what fuel that is, it could be petrol or diesel.
I am sure there are millions of others similar to me, as there are millions that live in the same style of property as me.

Perhaps it could be suggest EV advocates are anti something else other than petrol or diesel or emissions.
There doesn't seem much being done by EV advocates to solve the problem I would suffer from.
Perhaps there's an anti sentiment behind that and those might start using that as an insult or argument ender?  

CKhalvashi

Why would you though?

There is council funding for the infrastructure for those who don't have adequate parking.

Under these schemes, I can't see as an average that you would be paying 50p for charging.

There are also discounts based on certain apps. I'll speak to our fleet manager on request to get the tariffs we pay, but she won't be back in the office until this afternoon at which point I may have gone home, so this answer may have to be tomorrow.

Goudy

Goudy said:

How much would it cost if you haven't access to a cheap rate tariff and had to use an on street charger?

There are three different on street chargers near me.
Cheapest off peak is 40pkw +12p connection (midnight to 7am)
60pkw plus 12p connection peak, plus a £4.75 per hour parking charge at peak.

Dearest is 75pkw flat rate with no parking charge.

Home charging isn't an option in my local area, every building is flats and apartments, most cities seem to be full of them.

I'd love a reliable, cheap and effective solution but it just isn't happening.

It's the local council that charges the £4.75 per hour parking.

Chargy the chargers
char.gy — Public electric vehicle charging - on-street, car parks, lampposts
or 
Instavolt
InstaVolt announces updated charging tariff - InstaVolt

The chargers with the parking charge, although in my area are in another parking zone to me as they are on an adjacent street.
A parking permit would be far cheaper for an EV at my address than a petrol, but can't get one for the next zone with the local chargers as my address isn't in that particular CPZ. 

I could use them off peak (off peak parking that is) and move my car to charge up after 6.30pm.
If I did try, these chargers are not in dedicated charging bays but in the normal CPZ bays which are all full in the evening and at night as everyone is home and of course there's no parking charge after 6.30pm, so it's free for everyone and totally rammed.

Not much of a scheme is it?
It's thought out to extract the most cash for the least effort.