Who does the house go to when a partner dies? Partner disagrees.

SarahLu

Flody994 said:

he's decided he wants to save as much money as possible over the next two years, pay himself more, take money out of his business via directors loans and dividends and try and pay off his 'half' of the mortgage (65k). Then he said when I buy the sibling out, he won't have to contribute to a mortgage but I will be paying for my 'half' of the house myself through the mortgage (although we will both be on the mortgage/the deeds). 

So with this arrangement, would you be living in the same house, with you paying off your mortgage for the next however many years while he is mortgage free? Each to their own, but I personally can't imagine living like this in a committed relationship. Presumably he would then contribute more towards other costs, so doesn't it all work out in the end anyway? 

[Deleted User]

Exodi said:

Purbeck14 said:

My opinion is not based on "gender dynamics". I would say exactly the same if the genders were reversed.

This line comes up often, but as we all know it's very hard to prove. I'd just say it's telling that I can almost guarantee you are a woman and this is the problem, advice shouldn't vary but it often does. I will happily hold my hands up if I am wrong.

Gender bias should not impact our perception, but it often does. Personally I would love it if all threads on MSE were made non-gender specific (e.g. my partner instead of my boyfriend). I also don't think it's fair to shy away from some of your earlier comments made in this thread and now just focus on the new 'living with brother' angle.

Purbeck14 said:

(talking about the OP's partner aiming to own half the property outright and suggesting the OP take out a mortgage for the other half)

"He said the concept of mortgages are a con because of all the interest you have to pay back and is worried about interest rate rises so wants to get rid of his mortgage as soon as possible".

 BUT he wants you to take one out  and commit to maybe 15-35 years of paying it back in order to live with him. Both in your 30s you said I think, so from your point of view, probably having children within the next 10 years? What happens if one of you loses a job/cares for the children and works fewer hours/he leaves or you want to? Who pays "your" mortgage then? 

I really don't intend to dwell on this point though as it distracts from the topic at hand. I'd just encourage people to consider both sides and not get carried away with the gender dynamics.

So if the case was for example " SHE  doesn't believe in the concept of mortgages .... BUT  wants the man to take one out  and commit to maybe 15-35 years of paying it back in order to live with Her and her sister. To whom SHE will leave her share of the house" That would be different? 

" Both in your 30s you said I think, so from your point of view, probably having children within the next 10 years? What happens if one of you loses a job/cares for the children and works fewer hours/he leaves or you want to? Who pays "your" mortgage then? "  I did NOT say the OP was going to be the children's care giver ( you I assume, assume that?!)  Or that HE or SHE might be the one to lose the job, get ill, and not be able to pick up the tab on the other's costs so to speak.


But I will agree a non gender specific partner, with no him/her would be better. But it is difficult to do as people of different ages will assume different things.  I personally don't like the word "partner" as it's so ill defined as a generalisation, used for business also. 

BUT if my son was in the position the OP is I would caution the same, exactly the same, and though I can't "prove it" I thought the same about another male family member re his relationship,  that it is adviseable for both parties ( male/female) to know where they stand before making a decision and having a clear idea of the attitude of each to their assets, individual or shared ) .

However I will argue my point, the OP did not say in their initial post that the partner's brother would still be in residence when she moved in, it was only some posts later that ths was made clear and I still advise against that, regardless.

Financially I think it sounds that the partner has made the decisions in advance on what 'he' thinks should happen. All I am saying is that if only one partner in a relationship  does this without due consideration of what the other is comfortable with it's not always to the benefit of the other person, Male or Female. 

[Deleted User]

Considering both sides, from my POV 

His share of the house he can leave to anyone, it's his half.
Her share of the house she can leave to anyone, once she's bought it.

If that suits both fine, if it doesn't they might need to talk about it. 

If the two brothers can afford the mortgage and bills between them at present, I personally would only expect to pay a third of the household bills if I moved in, as I wouldn't actually have access to one of the bedrooms in the property and would have to share most of the rooms with 2 other people, one of whom I may not actually get along with ( or I may). Nor would I have any legal right ( or indeed expectation of that) to any portion of said property. 
 

[Deleted User]

I will repeat what I said some days ago 

"Purbeck14 said:

» show previous quotes ( re partner leaving the house to siblings) 

So why would that be a problem? Assuming given his age that he, or you,  may not die until the potential children have left home, and that he leaves a life insurance policy ( and you have one too of course) that pays out enough on his/your death to mean  the survivor can either buy another home or give his siblings half the value of the house and stay there? 

( 21st July) " I wouldn't want my suspicion/cynicism  to cloud the OPs decision making, so I go along with everyone who has suggested the legal mechanisms be put in place that make the OP more secure. If the prospective partner is not ok with that, then a Plan B is definitely needed imo. " 

I think both comments are fair, and I am not entirely sure why I have been singled out by Exodi for "gender bias" given that others have also expressed some concern. 

As Exodi himself says  and I agree with the comment  "You must appreciate, early on in a relationship it's a tall order to ask that someone should leave everything they own (as the majority of peoples wealth is in their home) to someone they've known for a relatively short period of time, instead of their close relatives.  Early on in my relationship, I held similar views. It was also hard to listen to my partner due to the power dynamic - e.g. it's easier for the person with less to suggest that everything is left to each other."  

>>>>>>>>As you say, it's awkward to think about my sisters trying to evict my wife following my death to realise an inheritance. Feels like an unfair situation to deliberately put everyone in. "  Quite! 

CSI_Yorkshire

[Deleted User] said:

I think both comments are fair, and I am not entirely sure why I have been singled out by Exodi for "gender bias" given that others have also expressed some concern. 

You weren't.  Exodi was very clear that it was a general point in response to multiple different contributors to the thread.  They mentioned nobody specifically, and did not quote any posters other than the OP.

You replied to argue the point - taking it on as being 'singled out' when no such thing occurred before you instigated the discussion.

Exodi

Purbeck14 said:
So if the case was for example " SHE  doesn't believe in the concept of mortgages .... BUT  wants the man to take one out  and commit to maybe 15-35 years of paying it back in order to live with Her and her sister. To whom SHE will leave her share of the house" That would be different? 

No... that's my entire point, it's whether peoples responses to the situation would be different.

Purbeck14 said:
" Both in your 30s you said I think, so from your point of view, probably having children within the next 10 years? What happens if one of you loses a job/cares for the children and works fewer hours/he leaves or you want to? Who pays "your" mortgage then? "  I did NOT say the OP was going to be the children's care giver ( you I assume, assume that?!)  Or that HE or SHE might be the one to lose the job, get ill, and not be able to pick up the tab on the other's costs so to speak.

I'm incredibly disappointed you have done this. Not once have I mentioned anything about who the primary care giver may be, or anything close to what you're referring to. I didn't suggest you had either. It's very poor play to just start making up views and suggesting that I hold them in an attempt to paint me out as a hypocrite.

Purbeck14 said:

I think both comments are fair, and I am not entirely sure why I have been singled out by Exodi for "gender bias" given that others have also expressed some concern. 

As CSI_Yorkshire said, and I want to reinforce, I did not single you out, my original comment deliberately did not quote anyone except the OP. You took it upon yourself to get defensive over my general comment, and after 3 back to back responses have concluded I am singling you out. As I said before, "I really don't intend to dwell on this point though as it distracts from the topic at hand. I'd just encourage people to consider both sides and not get carried away with the gender dynamics." - I genuinely don't want this thread to turn into gender politics. To be honest, I'm also a tad irritated at the above, it does get my back up when people put words in peoples mouths.

Nonetheless, I am confident the OP will be able to solve this situation with communication and compromise. I was actually in a virtually identical situation a few years ago. I'm now happily married (and my wife stands to profit considerably should I meet an untimely demise). It took me a little while to get there, and it probably would have taken me longer if she was too aggressive with the view that I should leave everything to her.

[Deleted User]

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Purbeck14 said:

I think both comments are fair, and I am not entirely sure why I have been singled out by Exodi for "gender bias" given that others have also expressed some concern. 

You weren't.  Exodi was very clear that it was a general point in response to multiple different contributors to the thread.  They mentioned nobody specifically, and did not quote any posters other than the OP.

You replied to argue the point - taking it on as being 'singled out' when no such thing occurred before you instigated the discussion.

To a point maybe, but since Exodi was directly quoting  my comments and my comments only I did take it personally.  I admit I am biased, but it is less to do with my gender than a sense of what is fair.  I do not think it is fair to either expect the partner to hand over half his house to the OP as a matter of course, nor do I think it fair that it appears on the surface at least  that he is expecting her to contribute more than her fair share before buying the brother's half. Good luck to them, they need to talk to each other and possibly take some legal advice, not mine, and probably not anyone else on here tbh. Calling it a day thanks. 

[Deleted User]

Sorry I missed the post in between. 

 My apologies if I have misinterpreted any responses or reacted in an inflammatory manner. Maybe I have too personal an issue with trust these days to make comment. 

 It may be also that I have misread the style of responding on here, where quoting is more a feature than I am used to on the other sites I use more often. I won't plead age as an excuse for that, or for a certain amount of experience where one  person in a relationship is the only one compromising. Compromise and communication are vital, as is honesty. I don't suggest that anyone leave anything to someone other than from choice and personal regard for them.  I hope the OP and her partner have a happy  relationship. 

My apologies once again Exodi and anyone who my remarks affected. 

Exodi

Purbeck14 said:

My apologies once again Exodi and anyone who my remarks affected.

No drama, don't overthink it.

We're all family here

[Deleted User]

A negative experience for oneself  IS going to influence replies, as is a positive experience in a similar set of circumstances. I accept that.  We are all human not robots so it's inevitable that maybe one will see the one side more than the other based on past experience and that horrible insistent  voice in the ear reminding you    'what happened to me was this, so please do be more cautious than I was'.

 If, by hoping that your own  willingness to try and make something work and ignoring the fact that you're flogging a dead horse, you've lost money, your home, security for your old age  etc it really doesn't matter what gender you are as when it comes down to it you can only blame yourself  for being a gullible mug!

  But after all there wouldn't need to be an MSE site if people didn't sometimes need to have  a clearer, dis-passionate view on finances and all the things connected to them and that those can be hard to grapple with long term.  

Have a good weekend.