Can I take a Scottish airline to Small Claims via MCOL (England)?

Justme2020

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

You might wish to refer the issue to the CAA prior to embarking on legal action:

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/how-the-caa-can-help/how-the-caa-can-help/

Thanks - it reads that our issue is outside of their scope though. 

Oh right, I was assuming it was a delay/cancellation compensation or refund issue from the board you chose to post it on, was it something completely different then and if so, under which legislation are you pursuing a debt?

It does relate to a flight and is a Scottish airline. It’s additional costs that were caused by a cancellation which they’re refusing to refund despite us being ~£250 out of pocket due to their mistake. 

That sounds like you're hoping to recover some consequential losses, so the question remains about the legal or contractual basis on which you'd anticipate doing so? Anyway, I get the impression that you may not wish to discuss the merits of your case here, but let us know how you get on if you go ahead....

Thanks - keeping the merits on the downlow as I’m sure firms monitor these forums. 

The basis of the claim: cancelled flight from airport x and having our departure changed to airport y. Out of pocket expenses for the having to drive and park at airport y whereas going from airport x would’ve cost us nothing

Unless you have some other legislation in mind that would entitle you to claim such costs, that sounds like a claim under the article 8 rerouting provisions of the UK261 regulations, and therefore within the CAA's scope?

I’ve done some searching, but are you please able to explain that further?

based on this, would my claim stand a chance?

eskbanker

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

You might wish to refer the issue to the CAA prior to embarking on legal action:

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/how-the-caa-can-help/how-the-caa-can-help/

Thanks - it reads that our issue is outside of their scope though. 

Oh right, I was assuming it was a delay/cancellation compensation or refund issue from the board you chose to post it on, was it something completely different then and if so, under which legislation are you pursuing a debt?

It does relate to a flight and is a Scottish airline. It’s additional costs that were caused by a cancellation which they’re refusing to refund despite us being ~£250 out of pocket due to their mistake. 

That sounds like you're hoping to recover some consequential losses, so the question remains about the legal or contractual basis on which you'd anticipate doing so? Anyway, I get the impression that you may not wish to discuss the merits of your case here, but let us know how you get on if you go ahead....

Thanks - keeping the merits on the downlow as I’m sure firms monitor these forums. 

The basis of the claim: cancelled flight from airport x and having our departure changed to airport y. Out of pocket expenses for the having to drive and park at airport y whereas going from airport x would’ve cost us nothing

Unless you have some other legislation in mind that would entitle you to claim such costs, that sounds like a claim under the article 8 rerouting provisions of the UK261 regulations, and therefore within the CAA's scope?

I’ve done some searching, but are you please able to explain that further?

based on this, would my claim stand a chance?

When an airline cancels a flight, they're obliged to offer passengers a choice between a refund or rerouting (under comparable transport conditions), so if they offered you a departure from y instead of x then they should get you from x to y first, or cover your reasonable costs in doing so.  That would normally be train or perhaps taxi, but if they're refusing to cover anything then escalating to the CAA should be accepted, based on that page linked earlier (which in turn links to the UK261 regulations themselves, covering cancellations).

However, those regulations are unlikely to support a claim for parking costs, for example, so I can't see that aspect succeeding, hence asking about the basis on which you'd make such a claim, in that it isn't as simple as the airline being on the hook for any and all costs incurred as a result of a cancellation, so if you were contemplating legal action then you'd need to establish a clear actual legal liability that they owed you the money.

Justme2020

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

You might wish to refer the issue to the CAA prior to embarking on legal action:

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/how-the-caa-can-help/how-the-caa-can-help/

Thanks - it reads that our issue is outside of their scope though. 

Oh right, I was assuming it was a delay/cancellation compensation or refund issue from the board you chose to post it on, was it something completely different then and if so, under which legislation are you pursuing a debt?

It does relate to a flight and is a Scottish airline. It’s additional costs that were caused by a cancellation which they’re refusing to refund despite us being ~£250 out of pocket due to their mistake. 

That sounds like you're hoping to recover some consequential losses, so the question remains about the legal or contractual basis on which you'd anticipate doing so? Anyway, I get the impression that you may not wish to discuss the merits of your case here, but let us know how you get on if you go ahead....

Thanks - keeping the merits on the downlow as I’m sure firms monitor these forums. 

The basis of the claim: cancelled flight from airport x and having our departure changed to airport y. Out of pocket expenses for the having to drive and park at airport y whereas going from airport x would’ve cost us nothing

Unless you have some other legislation in mind that would entitle you to claim such costs, that sounds like a claim under the article 8 rerouting provisions of the UK261 regulations, and therefore within the CAA's scope?

I’ve done some searching, but are you please able to explain that further?

based on this, would my claim stand a chance?

When an airline cancels a flight, they're obliged to offer passengers a choice between a refund or rerouting (under comparable transport conditions), so if they offered you a departure from y instead of x then they should get you from x to y first, or cover your reasonable costs in doing so.  That would normally be train or perhaps taxi, but if they're refusing to cover anything then escalating to the CAA should be accepted, based on that page linked earlier (which in turn links to the UK261 regulations themselves, covering cancellations).

However, those regulations are unlikely to support a claim for parking costs, for example, so I can't see that aspect succeeding, hence asking about the basis on which you'd make such a claim, in that it isn't as simple as the airline being on the hook for any and all costs incurred as a result of a cancellation, so if you were contemplating legal action then you'd need to establish a clear actual legal liability that they owed you the money.

Thanks. 

CAA Article 8 6.8 seems to suggest that airlines should recompense you if they don’t offer you travel. 

We weren’t offered travel. 

They have offered to pay our mileage to the new airport, which seems to suggest some liability, but not the parking. 

I can’t understand why they would do one without the other and simply refuse to pay out mileage too.

tightauldgit

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

You might wish to refer the issue to the CAA prior to embarking on legal action:

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/how-the-caa-can-help/how-the-caa-can-help/

Thanks - it reads that our issue is outside of their scope though. 

Oh right, I was assuming it was a delay/cancellation compensation or refund issue from the board you chose to post it on, was it something completely different then and if so, under which legislation are you pursuing a debt?

It does relate to a flight and is a Scottish airline. It’s additional costs that were caused by a cancellation which they’re refusing to refund despite us being ~£250 out of pocket due to their mistake. 

That sounds like you're hoping to recover some consequential losses, so the question remains about the legal or contractual basis on which you'd anticipate doing so? Anyway, I get the impression that you may not wish to discuss the merits of your case here, but let us know how you get on if you go ahead....

Thanks - keeping the merits on the downlow as I’m sure firms monitor these forums. 

The basis of the claim: cancelled flight from airport x and having our departure changed to airport y. Out of pocket expenses for the having to drive and park at airport y whereas going from airport x would’ve cost us nothing

Unless you have some other legislation in mind that would entitle you to claim such costs, that sounds like a claim under the article 8 rerouting provisions of the UK261 regulations, and therefore within the CAA's scope?

I’ve done some searching, but are you please able to explain that further?

based on this, would my claim stand a chance?

When an airline cancels a flight, they're obliged to offer passengers a choice between a refund or rerouting (under comparable transport conditions), so if they offered you a departure from y instead of x then they should get you from x to y first, or cover your reasonable costs in doing so.  That would normally be train or perhaps taxi, but if they're refusing to cover anything then escalating to the CAA should be accepted, based on that page linked earlier (which in turn links to the UK261 regulations themselves, covering cancellations).

However, those regulations are unlikely to support a claim for parking costs, for example, so I can't see that aspect succeeding, hence asking about the basis on which you'd make such a claim, in that it isn't as simple as the airline being on the hook for any and all costs incurred as a result of a cancellation, so if you were contemplating legal action then you'd need to establish a clear actual legal liability that they owed you the money.

Thanks. 

CAA Article 8 6.8 seems to suggest that airlines should recompense you if they don’t offer you travel. 

We weren’t offered travel. 

They have offered to pay our mileage to the new airport, which seems to suggest some liability, but not the parking. 

I can’t understand why they would do one without the other and simply refuse to pay out mileage too.

Presumably because you could have taken other forms of transport and not had to pay parking so parking doesn't really form an integral part of transporting you from one airport to the other. The airline is responsible for transporting you to the other airport but I can't see anything about parking costs being included.  

eskbanker

Justme2020 said:

They have offered to pay our mileage to the new airport, which seems to suggest some liability, but not the parking. 

I can’t understand why they would do one without the other and simply refuse to pay out mileage too.

I suspect that the CAA would agree that reimbursing mileage but not parking is reasonable, but there's only one way to find out!

Likewise you'd be rolling the dice if pursuing your original idea of suing - unless there's something specific that you'd seek to rely on, there's no legal obligation for the airline to reimburse all of your costs, i.e. as you say there's some liability but its not unconstrained.

Justme2020

tightauldgit said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

You might wish to refer the issue to the CAA prior to embarking on legal action:

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/how-the-caa-can-help/how-the-caa-can-help/

Thanks - it reads that our issue is outside of their scope though. 

Oh right, I was assuming it was a delay/cancellation compensation or refund issue from the board you chose to post it on, was it something completely different then and if so, under which legislation are you pursuing a debt?

It does relate to a flight and is a Scottish airline. It’s additional costs that were caused by a cancellation which they’re refusing to refund despite us being ~£250 out of pocket due to their mistake. 

That sounds like you're hoping to recover some consequential losses, so the question remains about the legal or contractual basis on which you'd anticipate doing so? Anyway, I get the impression that you may not wish to discuss the merits of your case here, but let us know how you get on if you go ahead....

Thanks - keeping the merits on the downlow as I’m sure firms monitor these forums. 

The basis of the claim: cancelled flight from airport x and having our departure changed to airport y. Out of pocket expenses for the having to drive and park at airport y whereas going from airport x would’ve cost us nothing

Unless you have some other legislation in mind that would entitle you to claim such costs, that sounds like a claim under the article 8 rerouting provisions of the UK261 regulations, and therefore within the CAA's scope?

I’ve done some searching, but are you please able to explain that further?

based on this, would my claim stand a chance?

When an airline cancels a flight, they're obliged to offer passengers a choice between a refund or rerouting (under comparable transport conditions), so if they offered you a departure from y instead of x then they should get you from x to y first, or cover your reasonable costs in doing so.  That would normally be train or perhaps taxi, but if they're refusing to cover anything then escalating to the CAA should be accepted, based on that page linked earlier (which in turn links to the UK261 regulations themselves, covering cancellations).

However, those regulations are unlikely to support a claim for parking costs, for example, so I can't see that aspect succeeding, hence asking about the basis on which you'd make such a claim, in that it isn't as simple as the airline being on the hook for any and all costs incurred as a result of a cancellation, so if you were contemplating legal action then you'd need to establish a clear actual legal liability that they owed you the money.

Thanks. 

CAA Article 8 6.8 seems to suggest that airlines should recompense you if they don’t offer you travel. 

We weren’t offered travel. 

They have offered to pay our mileage to the new airport, which seems to suggest some liability, but not the parking. 

I can’t understand why they would do one without the other and simply refuse to pay out mileage too.

Presumably because you could have taken other forms of transport and not had to pay parking so parking doesn't really form an integral part of transporting you from one airport to the other. The airline is responsible for transporting you to the other airport but I can't see anything about parking costs being included.  

None of this was offered or mentioned as an alternative though. Maybe we should’ve asked. Who knows…

Justme2020

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

They have offered to pay our mileage to the new airport, which seems to suggest some liability, but not the parking. 

I can’t understand why they would do one without the other and simply refuse to pay out mileage too.

I suspect that the CAA would agree that reimbursing mileage but not parking is reasonable, but there's only one way to find out!

Likewise you'd be rolling the dice if pursuing your original idea of suing - unless there's something specific that you'd seek to rely on, there's no legal obligation for the airline to reimburse all of your costs, i.e. as you say there's some liability but its not unconstrained.

Rolling the dice, possibly, but other than the £20 fee, I don’t think we’d be set to lose anything further in the event of us losing (or: no legal fees). Providing of course that we act reasonably, which I feel we’re doing. 

eskbanker

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

They have offered to pay our mileage to the new airport, which seems to suggest some liability, but not the parking. 

I can’t understand why they would do one without the other and simply refuse to pay out mileage too.

I suspect that the CAA would agree that reimbursing mileage but not parking is reasonable, but there's only one way to find out!

Likewise you'd be rolling the dice if pursuing your original idea of suing - unless there's something specific that you'd seek to rely on, there's no legal obligation for the airline to reimburse all of your costs, i.e. as you say there's some liability but its not unconstrained.

Rolling the dice, possibly, but other than the £20 fee, I don’t think we’d be set to lose anything further in the event of us losing (or: no legal fees). Providing of course that we act reasonably, which I feel we’re doing. 

In terms of reasonableness, what are the three relevant costs, i.e. mileage, parking, and the equivalent public transport?  You mentioned being ~£250 out of pocket, but that wouldn't seem a reasonable cost just for parking, so did that include the mileage that they've agreed to cover?

Justme2020

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

Justme2020 said:

They have offered to pay our mileage to the new airport, which seems to suggest some liability, but not the parking. 

I can’t understand why they would do one without the other and simply refuse to pay out mileage too.

I suspect that the CAA would agree that reimbursing mileage but not parking is reasonable, but there's only one way to find out!

Likewise you'd be rolling the dice if pursuing your original idea of suing - unless there's something specific that you'd seek to rely on, there's no legal obligation for the airline to reimburse all of your costs, i.e. as you say there's some liability but its not unconstrained.

Rolling the dice, possibly, but other than the £20 fee, I don’t think we’d be set to lose anything further in the event of us losing (or: no legal fees). Providing of course that we act reasonably, which I feel we’re doing. 

In terms of reasonableness, what are the three relevant costs, i.e. mileage, parking, and the equivalent public transport?  You mentioned being ~£250 out of pocket, but that wouldn't seem a reasonable cost just for parking, so did that include the mileage that they've agreed to cover?

Roughly £250, yes. The parking, as it was booked with less than 24hrs notice was almost ‘on the door’ price of over £100 for 3 days and with mileage at 45ppm, that takes it to not far away from £250.

eskbanker

Justme2020 said:

eskbanker said:

In terms of reasonableness, what are the three relevant costs, i.e. mileage, parking, and the equivalent public transport?  You mentioned being ~£250 out of pocket, but that wouldn't seem a reasonable cost just for parking, so did that include the mileage that they've agreed to cover?

Roughly £250, yes. The parking, as it was booked with less than 24hrs notice was almost ‘on the door’ price of over £100 for 3 days and with mileage at 45ppm, that takes it to not far away from £250.

As above, the purpose of the question was to try to ascertain what might be considered reasonable, and hence asking about the costs of equivalent public transport versus driving and parking, but you didn't clarify that?

If the airline has offered to reimburse your mileage, is it at the rate you're hoping for, or have they proposed something else?