Any Suggestions - Help with this situation - People Parking on white H markings on a dropped Kerb

Undervalued

Section62 said:

molerat said:

You need to check if it is enforced by your council or police.  Council may be easier as it will be £s in the coffers.

Unfortunately for the OP, parking on the white marking isn't an offence or contravention.

In areas where parking adjacent to a dropped kerb is a contravention then the relevant local authority could issue a PCN, but only because of the dropped kerb, not because of the white line.

The only power the police have in a situation like this would be enforcement for obstruction - and that's only likely to be in cases where the driveway is completely obstructed whilst the OP's vehicle is still on the drive.

It is treated as such in some areas - bylaws?

In the city where I live, the council civil enforcement officers ("traffic wardens") are empowered to ticket a vehicle parked even partly inside an H marker. They do it regularly and a phone call to the Council's parking services office will normally get a enforcement officer sent round on his bike within half an hour.

Without an H mark it is far more difficult as the enforcement officers are not empowered to deal with vehicles partly blocking a dropped kerb. That needs the police who will come, as a very low priority, if you are obstructed from getting out of a driveway with a dropped kerb. They won't generally come if you are on the road and can't get in. Apparently the offence they use is obstructing access to the highway.

EssexExile

GDB2222 said:

Buy/hire a couple of old cars and park them either side of your drive?

Don't forget to tax and insure them.

MikeJXE

turnitround said:

MikeJXE said:

Take photo and report them it’s an offence 

Which part of parking either side of the H consitutes an offence?

The title says people parking ON H line 

Section62

Undervalued said:

Section62 said:

molerat said:

You need to check if it is enforced by your council or police.  Council may be easier as it will be £s in the coffers.

Unfortunately for the OP, parking on the white marking isn't an offence or contravention.

In areas where parking adjacent to a dropped kerb is a contravention then the relevant local authority could issue a PCN, but only because of the dropped kerb, not because of the white line.

The only power the police have in a situation like this would be enforcement for obstruction - and that's only likely to be in cases where the driveway is completely obstructed whilst the OP's vehicle is still on the drive.

It is treated as such in some areas - bylaws?

In the city where I live, the council civil enforcement officers ("traffic wardens") are empowered to ticket a vehicle parked even partly inside an H marker. They do it regularly and a phone call to the Council's parking services office will normally get a enforcement officer sent round on his bike within half an hour.

Without an H mark it is far more difficult as the enforcement officers are not empowered to deal with vehicles partly blocking a dropped kerb. That needs the police who will come, as a very low priority, if you are obstructed from getting out of a driveway with a dropped kerb. They won't generally come if you are on the road and can't get in. Apparently the offence they use is obstructing access to the highway.

It couldn't be a bylaw.  The use of road markings and traffic signs is prescribed nationally by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD).

The 'H' marking is what is known as a Diagram 1026.1.  The meaning of this marking is prescribed by TSRGD and cannot be used for any other purpose (without special authorisation, which wouldn't be given in this case)

Chapter 5 of the Traffic Signs Manual gives plain-language instruction on what the markings are and how they should be used.  In the case of Diagram 1026.1 it states (in para 11.4.7)  "The marking is not legally enforceable. However, if used sparingly it may be helpful in discouraging inconsiderate parking, particularly where a problem is isolated and a Traffic Regulation Order could not be justified or easily enforced."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/773421/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf

The CEO's could issue a PCN for parking adjacent to a dropped kerb, but they shouldn't be issuing one for parking on the marking.

If the council wanted a marking that could be enforced they would need to make a traffic order and have yellow line(s) instead.

Undervalued

Section62 said:

Undervalued said:

Section62 said:

molerat said:

You need to check if it is enforced by your council or police.  Council may be easier as it will be £s in the coffers.

Unfortunately for the OP, parking on the white marking isn't an offence or contravention.

In areas where parking adjacent to a dropped kerb is a contravention then the relevant local authority could issue a PCN, but only because of the dropped kerb, not because of the white line.

The only power the police have in a situation like this would be enforcement for obstruction - and that's only likely to be in cases where the driveway is completely obstructed whilst the OP's vehicle is still on the drive.

It is treated as such in some areas - bylaws?

In the city where I live, the council civil enforcement officers ("traffic wardens") are empowered to ticket a vehicle parked even partly inside an H marker. They do it regularly and a phone call to the Council's parking services office will normally get a enforcement officer sent round on his bike within half an hour.

Without an H mark it is far more difficult as the enforcement officers are not empowered to deal with vehicles partly blocking a dropped kerb. That needs the police who will come, as a very low priority, if you are obstructed from getting out of a driveway with a dropped kerb. They won't generally come if you are on the road and can't get in. Apparently the offence they use is obstructing access to the highway.

It couldn't be a bylaw.  The use of road markings and traffic signs is prescribed nationally by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD).

The 'H' marking is what is known as a Diagram 1026.1.  The meaning of this marking is prescribed by TSRGD and cannot be used for any other purpose (without special authorisation, which wouldn't be given in this case)

Chapter 5 of the Traffic Signs Manual gives plain-language instruction on what the markings are and how they should be used.  In the case of Diagram 1026.1 it states (in para 11.4.7)  "The marking is not legally enforceable. However, if used sparingly it may be helpful in discouraging inconsiderate parking, particularly where a problem is isolated and a Traffic Regulation Order could not be justified or easily enforced."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/773421/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf

The CEO's could issue a PCN for parking adjacent to a dropped kerb, but they shouldn't be issuing one for parking on the marking.

If the council wanted a marking that could be enforced they would need to make a traffic order and have yellow line(s) instead.

Interesting, thanks @Section62

However, I can only repeat that in the city where I live the council enforcement act exactly as I have described. My neighbours and I have called them several times in recent years and each time a CEO has ticked the offending vehicle.

Obviously a short distance into the H mark the dropped kerb starts. Maybe the H mark has "clarified" the dropped kerb in some way to the point that a CEO can deal with that offence? Where there is not an H mark the council will not send a CEO and tell the householder to call the police.

They do it often enough that I find it hard to believe that the FPNs are not enforceable.

This is all within a fairly new residents parking scheme for which obviously traffic orders were required. It has also clarified that the road is too narrow (by a few inches) for parking on both sides. So where there are residents bays or pay and display on one side there are double yellow lines on the other side. My H mark predates the residents scheme but was repainted free of charge as part of implementing the scheme.

Section62

Undervalued said:

Section62 said:

Interesting, thanks Section62

However, I can only repeat that in the city where I live the council enforcement act exactly as I have described. My neighbours and I have called them several times in recent years and each time a CEO has ticked the offending vehicle.

Obviously a short distance into the H mark the dropped kerb starts. Maybe the H mark has "clarified" the dropped kerb in some way to the point that a CEO can deal with that offence? Where there is not an H mark the council will not send a CEO and tell the householder to call the police.

The council could adopt a policy where they will only enforce a dropped kerb contravention where a white line has been painted, but this would still be enforcement of the dropped kerb, not enforcement of the marking.

One of the requirements for the civil enforcement (of parking) regime is the local authority have to use contravention codes.  Parking adjacent to a dropped kerb is a code 27 contravention. There is no contravention code for parking on a 1026.1 marking.  Therefore the council/CEO would need to make something up in order to issue a PCN for that contravention, rather than using the correct code 27 enforcement process.

Undervalued said:

They do it often enough that I find it hard to believe that the FPNs are not enforceable.

Councils, often those finding their feet with the civil enforcement process, do sometimes make errors or incorrect assumptions about how to implement the system.  There have been cases where large numbers of PCNs have had to be cancelled because they were legally flawed. (see above about councils/CEO's making things up)

But just checking... do you really mean FPN, or did you mean PCN?

Undervalued

Section62 said:

Undervalued said:

Section62 said:

Interesting, thanks Section62

However, I can only repeat that in the city where I live the council enforcement act exactly as I have described. My neighbours and I have called them several times in recent years and each time a CEO has ticked the offending vehicle.

Obviously a short distance into the H mark the dropped kerb starts. Maybe the H mark has "clarified" the dropped kerb in some way to the point that a CEO can deal with that offence? Where there is not an H mark the council will not send a CEO and tell the householder to call the police.

The council could adopt a policy where they will only enforce a dropped kerb contravention where a white line has been painted, but this would still be enforcement of the dropped kerb, not enforcement of the marking.

One of the requirements for the civil enforcement (of parking) regime is the local authority have to use contravention codes.  Parking adjacent to a dropped kerb is a code 27 contravention. There is no contravention code for parking on a 1026.1 marking.  Therefore the council/CEO would need to make something up in order to issue a PCN for that contravention, rather than using the correct code 27 enforcement process.

Undervalued said:

They do it often enough that I find it hard to believe that the FPNs are not enforceable.

Councils, often those finding their feet with the civil enforcement process, do sometimes make errors or incorrect assumptions about how to implement the system.  There have been cases where large numbers of PCNs have had to be cancelled because they were legally flawed. (see above about councils/CEO's making things up)

But just checking... do you really mean FPN, or did you mean PCN?

Thanks @Section62

1st para - Maybe that is what they have done. I've not actually seen one of the tickets they issue, only the polly bag attached to the windscreen of the offending vehicle!

3rd Para - Although our RPS is fairly new others have existed in the city for maybe twenty years. Has been civil enforcement for a very long while.

4th para - No idea, sorry. For the the same reasons as para 1

caprikid1

It would be great to see an aerial photo as it feels like the length of dropped curb you have put in may have exacerbated parking challenges on the street. It looks like you can park quite a few vehicles and drive them all of easily if the H Markings are obeyed. I suspect the neighbours might feel you are the inconsiderate one for dropping such a large amount of curb.