Smart meter

Gerry1

Dolor said:

Gerry1 said:

mmmmikey said:

Fertilizer said:

I understand that quite a few people who have had "smart meters" installed have requested them to be removed - and they have been.

Apart from needing to use your wifi (and wifi might not be good for you), it also means the energy company can simply turn off your supply remotely.  That's seems to be the main reason these meters are being pushed - control.

(2) There are all sorts of checks and balances in place to stop the energy companies switching off your meter remotely on a whim. And in any case why on earth would they want to - they are in the business of selling electricity?

Why is this 'on a whim' nonsense always trotted out?

I'd wager you've never read the smart meter specification, hence you're not familiar with Load Limiting, Load Shedding, Time of Use Tariffs (Surge Pricing), Demand Side Response etc.

The energy companies don't want to switch people off but they may have to implement rationing when the creaky grid doesn't have enough juice to go round because nuclear stations have been closed and not replaced, it's dark and cold, and a stationary high pressure system means the wind won't blow for a week.

Have you a single validated report of any supplier disconnecting a supply using remote disconnection?

Happens frequently in southern Africa where the networks are even creakier than ours.

Dolor said:

Gerry1 said:

mmmmikey said:

Fertilizer said:

I understand that quite a few people who have had "smart meters" installed have requested them to be removed - and they have been.

Apart from needing to use your wifi (and wifi might not be good for you), it also means the energy company can simply turn off your supply remotely.  That's seems to be the main reason these meters are being pushed - control.

(2) There are all sorts of checks and balances in place to stop the energy companies switching off your meter remotely on a whim. And in any case why on earth would they want to - they are in the business of selling electricity?

Why is this 'on a whim' nonsense always trotted out?

I'd wager you've never read the smart meter specification, hence you're not familiar with Load Limiting, Load Shedding, Time of Use Tariffs (Surge Pricing), Demand Side Response etc.

The energy companies don't want to switch people off but they may have to implement rationing when the creaky grid doesn't have enough juice to go round because nuclear stations have been closed and not replaced, it's dark and cold, and a stationary high pressure system means the wind won't blow for a week.

Indeed, based on legal advice, it was agreed some years ago that suppliers will not use remote disconnection for such things as termination of supply due to bad debts. This would be done in the normal way via a Court Order.

Complete red herring, I haven't suggested that, I'm talking about a smart grid where your energy use has to be at times and loads that suit the network rather than the customer.

Dolor said:

In the future, we may see remote disconnection used when a consumer breaches an agreed power-limited tariff. The possibility of disconnection will be in the tariff terms and conditions. That said, these tariffs have yet to be offered to consumers in the UK.

We certainly will see Load Limiting, Load Shedding etc.  But only when the vast majority of users have been forced to have smart meters.  Don't scare the punters away, just give them a shiny toy !

[Deleted User]

Gerry1 said:

Ŷ

Dolor said:

Gerry1 said:

mmmmikey said:

Fertilizer said:

I understand that quite a few people who have had "smart meters" installed have requested them to be removed - and they have been.

Apart from needing to use your wifi (and wifi might not be good for you), it also means the energy company can simply turn off your supply remotely.  That's seems to be the main reason these meters are being pushed - control.

(2) There are all sorts of checks and balances in place to stop the energy companies switching off your meter remotely on a whim. And in any case why on earth would they want to - they are in the business of selling electricity?

Why is this 'on a whim' nonsense always trotted out?

I'd wager you've never read the smart meter specification, hence you're not familiar with Load Limiting, Load Shedding, Time of Use Tariffs (Surge Pricing), Demand Side Response etc.

The energy companies don't want to switch people off but they may have to implement rationing when the creaky grid doesn't have enough juice to go round because nuclear stations have been closed and not replaced, it's dark and cold, and a stationary high pressure system means the wind won't blow for a week.

Have you a single validated report of any supplier disconnecting a supply using remote disconnection?

Happens frequently in southern Africa where the networks are even creakier than ours.

Dolor said:

Gerry1 said:

mmmmikey said:

Fertilizer said:

I understand that quite a few people who have had "smart meters" installed have requested them to be removed - and they have been.

Apart from needing to use your wifi (and wifi might not be good for you), it also means the energy company can simply turn off your supply remotely.  That's seems to be the main reason these meters are being pushed - control.

(2) There are all sorts of checks and balances in place to stop the energy companies switching off your meter remotely on a whim. And in any case why on earth would they want to - they are in the business of selling electricity?

Why is this 'on a whim' nonsense always trotted out?

I'd wager you've never read the smart meter specification, hence you're not familiar with Load Limiting, Load Shedding, Time of Use Tariffs (Surge Pricing), Demand Side Response etc.

The energy companies don't want to switch people off but they may have to implement rationing when the creaky grid doesn't have enough juice to go round because nuclear stations have been closed and not replaced, it's dark and cold, and a stationary high pressure system means the wind won't blow for a week.

Indeed, based on legal advice, it was agreed some years ago that suppliers will not use remote disconnection for such things as termination of supply due to bad debts. This would be done in the normal way via a Court Order.

Complete red herring, I haven't suggested that, I'm talking about a smart grid where your energy use has to be at times and loads that suit the network rather than the customer.

Dolor said:

In the future, we may see remote disconnection used when a consumer breaches an agreed power-limited tariff. The possibility of disconnection will be in the tariff terms and conditions. That said, these tariffs have yet to be offered to consumers in the UK.

We certainly will see Load Limiting, Load Shedding etc.  But only when the vast majority of users have been forced to have smart meters.  Don't scare the punters away, just give them a shiny toy !

South Africa - what has that got to do with the UK? You could have chosen France or Spain where they do have power-limited tariffs. If the consumer wants 10kW then the tariff is more expensive than a 5kW tariff. Yes, these tariffs will come to the UK. In my view, the sooner the better.

debitcardmayhem

South Africa - what has that got to do with the UK? You could have chosen France or Spain where they do have power-limited tariffs. If the consumer wants 10kW then the tariff is more expensive than a 5kW tariff. Yes, these tariffs will come to the UK. In my view, the sooner the better.

I beg to differ, the UK government is famous for its for piddling around with economic stuff, e.g. banning bogof at supermarkets. What about someone who needs 10kW for life sustaining equipment, or keeping the temperature at 22 degrees so they are comfortable in their terminal illness? , and I don’t mean the ones who have cannabis farms in their lofts.
Should they have to pay more?

matt_drummer

debitcardmayhem said:

South Africa - what has that got to do with the UK? You could have chosen France or Spain where they do have power-limited tariffs. If the consumer wants 10kW then the tariff is more expensive than a 5kW tariff. Yes, these tariffs will come to the UK. In my view, the sooner the better.

I beg to differ, the UK government is famous for its for piddling around with economic stuff, e.g. banning bogof at supermarkets. What about someone who needs 10kW for life sustaining equipment, or keeping the temperature at 22 degrees so they are comfortable in their terminal illness? , and I don’t mean the ones who have cannabis farms in their lofts.
Should they have to pay more?

They will if they don't have a smart meter.

If they need more energy they can go on a register that protects them from higher prices.

Smart meters will protect those most in need and benefit those whose choose to engage.

It will be those who resist smart meters that will pay the highest prices.

You have it the wrong way around, dumb meters will be restricted or charged the most.

CSI_Yorkshire

debitcardmayhem said:

Should they have to pay more?

Well, yes.

With of course appropriate subsidies or support mechanisms as determined should be available.

debitcardmayhem

matt_drummer said:

debitcardmayhem said:

South Africa - what has that got to do with the UK? You could have chosen France or Spain where they do have power-limited tariffs. If the consumer wants 10kW then the tariff is more expensive than a 5kW tariff. Yes, these tariffs will come to the UK. In my view, the sooner the better.

I beg to differ, the UK government is famous for its for piddling around with economic stuff, e.g. banning bogof at supermarkets. What about someone who needs 10kW for life sustaining equipment, or keeping the temperature at 22 degrees so they are comfortable in their terminal illness? , and I don’t mean the ones who have cannabis farms in their lofts.
Should they have to pay more?

They will if they don't have a smart meter.

If they need more energy they can go on a register that protects them from higher prices.

Smart meters will protect those most in need and benefit those whose choose to engage.

It will be those who resist smart meters that will pay the highest prices.

You have it the wrong way around, dumb meters will be restricted or charged the most.

CSI_Yorkshire said:

debitcardmayhem said:

Should they have to pay more?

Well, yes.

With of course appropriate subsidies or support mechanisms as determined should be available.

Aaah the famous subsidies/support from the government, yes when you are sufferimg  a terminal illness why do you need to register.and are they also going to say but you are not poor? Nope not poor just dying

 OH and I didn't smart meters or dumb meters I was replying to Dolor about paying extra  if you use as he said 10kW . If you use 5kW then you pay for 5Kw if 10kW then the same , do you or did he suggest that the SC should be higher over a certain limit?  

Answer on the back of a postcard, sorry I can't agree end of.

EDIT: PS I would pay whatever it takes to make my best friend and wife better, but that is life and money doesn't solve everything.

CSI_Yorkshire

debitcardmayhem said:

matt_drummer said:

debitcardmayhem said:

South Africa - what has that got to do with the UK? You could have chosen France or Spain where they do have power-limited tariffs. If the consumer wants 10kW then the tariff is more expensive than a 5kW tariff. Yes, these tariffs will come to the UK. In my view, the sooner the better.

I beg to differ, the UK government is famous for its for piddling around with economic stuff, e.g. banning bogof at supermarkets. What about someone who needs 10kW for life sustaining equipment, or keeping the temperature at 22 degrees so they are comfortable in their terminal illness? , and I don’t mean the ones who have cannabis farms in their lofts.
Should they have to pay more?

They will if they don't have a smart meter.

If they need more energy they can go on a register that protects them from higher prices.

Smart meters will protect those most in need and benefit those whose choose to engage.

It will be those who resist smart meters that will pay the highest prices.

You have it the wrong way around, dumb meters will be restricted or charged the most.

CSI_Yorkshire said:

debitcardmayhem said:

Should they have to pay more?

Well, yes.

With of course appropriate subsidies or support mechanisms as determined should be available.

Aaah the famous subsidies/support from the government, yes when you are sufferimg  a terminal illness why do you need to register.and are they also going to say but you are not poor? Nope not poor just dying

 OH and I didn't smart meters or dumb meters I was replying to Dolor about paying extra  if you use as he said 10kW . If you use 5kW then you pay for 5Kw if 10kW then the same , do you or did he suggest that the SC should be higher over a certain limit?  

Answer on the back of a postcard, sorry I can't agree end of.

EDIT: PS I would pay whatever it takes to make my best friend and wife better, but that is life and money doesn't solve everything.

Yes, it should be.  It is for many commercial connections and in many other countries.

You want a bigger connection to your house, you pay a bigger connection charge.  Simple logic.

It would fix part of the issue that everyone keeps complaining about, where bigger users don't seem to be paying a bigger portion of the cost of the network.

And there already is a mechanism for claiming additional electricity costs for medical equipment, modifying that scheme would be trivial.

[Deleted User]

 OH and I didn't smart meters or dumb meters I was replying to Dolor about paying extra  if you use as he said 10kW . If you use 5kW then you pay for 5Kw if 10kW then the same , do you or did he suggest that the SC should be higher over a certain limit? 

Power-limited tariffs have nothing to do with how much consumers uses in kWh - it is an agreed limit on how much instant power kW (kVA) is used. For example, if a consumer is happy with a 3kW limit, then the oven and kettle could not be on at the same time. The lower the agreed kW limit, the lower the daily standing charge.

MartinGreenwood

Dex1208 said:

Hi. My energy provider is edf. I keep getting messages and phone calls from them saying they need to upgrade my meters and they want to install a smart meter. 
Do i have to have a smart meter, or even a new meter? Do smart meters function properly? I would like to know the pros and cons before i make a decision.

A good list of Pros and cons are shown on this page: https://www.smartme.co.uk/good-or-bad.html

Raxiel

[Deleted User] said:

Have we been conned?

Harsh as this might sound, the only one ‘conned’ is your energy supplier. The responsibility was on you to report that your analogue meter was not fitted with a reverse backstop.

A smart meter records both import and export separately. For SEG payments, the meter needs two MPANs.

I've looked into this, and surprisingly there is actually no obligation on the consumer to report a meter that goes backwards. The installer has an obligation to inform the DNO and they are supposed to make sure the meter is suitable.

Of course the Venn diagram of things that should happen and things that do happen is far from a perfect circle, and quite often, nothing gets done. I wouldn't be surprised if someone somewhere had done the math and determined it was cheaper to not bother and just allow the attrition of old meters due to both the smart meter rollout and longstanding certification periods to take care of it over time.

Two of my neighbours have PV and very old disc meters that run backwards. One has told me that when their supplier says they  must have a new meter, they'll book an appointment, but as long as they continue to 'invite' her to have one, they'll continue to ignore it.