Cascade of problems changing from British Gas to Octopus.

MickyLuv

I inherited an Economy 7 meter in my flat 5 years ago. It has never been used as such in all that time. I've always given the day and night reading which was then converted by the supplier to produce a standard single rate tariff.

Through EDF; Peoples Energy; British Gas and now Octopus.

I was told that I would have to open my account with Octopus before I could use my E7 meter as a standard meter, so I did.

Then I emailed hello@octopus.energy, encouraged by their bright and breezy willingness to help.

Me: (May 18th) "... I enquired earlier, prior to opening the account, about starting my account on a standard variable rate tariff even though I have  an Economy 7 meter. 

l was told to open the account first then ask to override the Economy 7 dual tariff with a standard one.

Can I now do that?"

Lucy: (Octopus, May 19th) "...I have also popped you on the flat rate tariff from yesterday when you joined us."

Me: (June 13th)

Hello Octopus,

I've just gone to your clearly structured and stylish phone app to enter my meter reading for June.

In the meter reading history it at first showed 2 readings for the 18th of May.

One showed the day reading as 26818 and the night reading as 44954. This is the way around I have always  entered it in the past.

the next reading for the same date showed:

Day reading 44954

Night reading 26818 which is the wrong way around based on previous readings.

Going back to the phone app, there is now  only one reading in the history section which is the "wrong way around" one.

Paige Y: (Octopus, 15th June)

Thank you for your email and my apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

Your previous supplier has given us the readings as your opening readings. They have given us Night 26818.0 and Day 44954.0.

If you please perform a test for us we can determine the correct way round and then work to get your opening readings amended.

Paige Y: (Octopus, 22nd June)

My sincerest apologies I was meant to include the test instructions in my previous email. I will this time leave the instructions below:

Please take a picture of both of your meter's registers (Day & Night/ Rate 1 & 2) early in the day, preferably before 12pm, and then another at least 5 hours later. If you had a watch or clock showing in the picture too, that would be perfect.

Then we’ll be able to investigate further into this and apply any necessary changes to your registers for you.

The issue that having your readings transposed will caused is that you may be charged incorrectly for the incorrect usage. On economy 7 you have a cheaper night rate and we want to make sure you are making the most of it by billing you to the correct usage.

May I please ask if you use quite a bit of energy at night? We recommend customers on economy 7 to use at least 33% or more of energy during the night to make the most of the tariff. This is because the day rate is higher than the standard flat rate meaning if you use the majority of your energy during the day you will be paying more. If this is the case I would recommend being on the flat rate.

Me: (22nd June)

Thank you I will take the timed photos as you suggest.

I did earlier by email arrange with Octopus to have the standard variable rate applied to my account rather than the separate day and night rates of Economy 7.

Please can you confirm that this arrangement has been put in place?.

__________________________________________

Right now:

It seems to me that the more clearly and  concisely I try to explain this situation to the Octopus Team the more complicated and mixed up it gets.

In these days of frightening energy bills I'm getting quite worried. So, I'd appreciate a bit of advice.

[Deleted User]

In the meter reading history it at first showed 2 readings for the 18th of May. 

One showed the day reading as 26818 and the night reading as 44954. This is the way around I have always  entered it in the past.

the next reading for the same date showed:

Day reading 44954

Night reading 26818 which is the wrong way around based on previous readings.

Does any of this matter if all your units are being billed at the single rate as confirmed by Lucy? Have you had a bill from Octopus which shows that you are being billed on an E7 tariff, or are you just assuming that they will get it wrong?

You can generate a bill by entering your meter readings on the App. You can then see if you have anything to worry about.

FWiW, smart meters no longer use terms like day and night, and there is no convention on which register is to be used for the cheap period.

MickyLuv

Does any of this matter if all your units are being billed at the single rate as confirmed by Lucy?

Lucy said she'd set the tariff to standard, yes.

Then later Paige seemed to be writing on the basis that the tariff is an Economy 7 one.
This is borne out by the phone app which now shows I'm on  an Economy 7 Tariff with different day and night rates.  This is why I'm begining to get worried about the continuing effect of  mistakes and miscommunications.

 Have you had a bill from Octopus which shows that you are being billed on an E7 tariff,

Yes

or are you just assuming that they will get it wrong?

I know they're getting it wrong. I'm hoping to assume they'll get it right soon.

You can generate a bill by entering your meter readings on the App.

Done that but the only option was to enter it the wrong way around.

You can then see if you have anything to worry about.

Consequently I do see I have something to worry about.

FWiW, smart meters no longer use terms like day and night, and there is no convention on which register is to be used for the cheap period.

Yes I understand that smart meters can be most helpful.

QrizB

MickyLuv said:

You can then see if you have anything to worry about.

Consequently I do see I have something to worry about.

From what you've posted, Octopus are following their usual process for confirming which register is which. This is entirely normal and is what I would expect to happen.

MickyLuv said:

I did earlier by email arrange with Octopus to have the standard variable rate applied to my account rather than the separate day and night rates of Economy 7.

Please can you confirm that this arrangement has been put in place?

What does your online account say? Are you being billed at a single rate, or a split one?

MickyLuv said:

In these days of frightening energy bills I'm getting quite worried. So, I'd appreciate a bit of advice.

Follow the process, any mix-up with your opening meter readings should be sorted out.

MickyLuv

Reply to QrizB

Thanks for the advice.

I'm glad for you, that you have an optomistic faith in the Octopus processes and procedures.

I wish I could share your perception on these things but not even Octopus themselves are as confident about this situation as you are. 

It was explained by Octopus in an email to me on May 26th, regarding the random complexities involved in the account transfer from BG to them:

"...We think this is all a bit bonkers, but the energy industry is full of these estimations and methods..."

Gerry1

It's completely sensible for Octopus to check that the day / night registers aren't swapped over.  It's very easy to check by following their simple instructions.  Getting it right now will avoid problems months or even years down the line.

There's nothing to be gained by refusing to cooperate.

Unlike some awkward companies,  Octopus will happily bill an E7 meter at single rate after the registers have been allocated correctly.

MickyLuv

To Gerry1

Where did your "...refusing to cooperate" idea come from?

I've been frantically cooperating by multiple communication methods for over a month trying to resolve this issue and continue to do so. Unfortunately the "Bonkers" factor continues to cause some confustion. Which is sad for me becuase I'm the one paying for the mistakes.

Gerry1

MickyLuv said:

To Gerry1

Where did your "...refusing to cooperate" idea come from?

Have you sent Octopus the photos showing which register increases during the day?  Once that's sorted out then they can bill you at single rate.

victor2

@MickyLuv, have you showed Octopus a copy of your final bill with your previous supplier? That will show which readings were being used for day and night, even on a single rate tariff. 
Your photographic proof of which register increments during day/night will also show which is which. If they agree, then that is what Octopus should follow. If they show the readings were previously transposed, then they should be reversed. 
Either way, being billed on a single rate tariff won't affect you financially, but it should be correct going forward.
I manage an account with Octopus, which has an E7 meter on a single rate tariff. It was SoLR'd to Octopus after Avro ceased trading. Even though Avro didn't do E7 tariffs, Octopus put it onto one. It took a few emails to put it back onto a single rate tariff, but we got there in the end, only for Octopus to put it back to E7 when the rates changed! A few more emails sorted that out and since then it has remained on a single rate. If you look at available tariffs for the account though, they all show E7. 
All I can say is persist with Octopus by email and they should eventually sort it out. Raise a formal complaint if necessary, but get all your facts verified and lined up, so they will hopefully understand.

MickyLuv

Thanks Gerry1, I'm still in the process of doing what you suggest. I only got the email asking me to post the photos yesterday afternoon. The requirement is that one photo is taken early in the day and the next photo taken at least 5 hours later

Consequently, I took one photo at 8am this morning and I'm going to take the next at 5pm, mainly because it will only be by then that a significant quantity of electricity will have been used for cooking etc.

So I don't think my actions here could be considered as a refusal to cooperate.

It is interesting though. I've been using this forum for some years now and it has often suprised me that  many of the requests for help from individuals regarding their problems with suppliers and other big organisations have been met with scepticism and a distinct attempt to make the requester the bad guy.

Though the forums here could be expected to provide a sympathetic hearing from the little guy's peers, it often seems that the replies come from individual with a heavy bias in favour of the companies, who are usually far from blameless themselves.

MickyLuv

victor2 said:

@MickyLuv, have you showed Octopus a copy of your final bill with your previous supplier? That will show which readings were being used for day and night, even on a single rate tariff. 
Your photographic proof of which register increments during day/night will also show which is which. If they agree, then that is what Octopus should follow. If they show the readings were previously transposed, then they should be reversed. 
Either way, being billed on a single rate tariff won't affect you financially, but it should be correct going forward.
I manage an account with Octopus, which has an E7 meter on a single rate tariff. It was SoLR'd to Octopus after Avro ceased trading. Even though Avro didn't do E7 tariffs, Octopus put it onto one. It took a few emails to put it back onto a single rate tariff, but we got there in the end, only for Octopus to put it back to E7 when the rates changed! A few more emails sorted that out and since then it has remained on a single rate. If you look at available tariffs for the account though, they all show E7. 
All I can say is persist with Octopus by email and they should eventually sort it out. Raise a formal complaint if necessary, but get all your facts verified and lined up, so they will hopefully understand.

Thanks victor2 really good and reassuring advice. I'll provide Octopus with as many of your recommended details as I can.