dead on arrival - online company won't collect or refund appliance

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

bobbidyboo said:

PHK said:

I'm not sure how complaining to the FOS will help with an online seller. They deal with complaints about financial firms that are on the FCA register not with retail disputes about goods.

Where did this advice come from?

The citizens advice is what you were told earlier in the thread. There is no protection in law unfortunately  

Thanks for the non-toxic helpful input. the advice came from citizen's advice. If what you're saying is true I guess I can't trust them either

I think it's a common misconception that consumers are protected in the UK with online purchases from big name shops. I hope this thread serves a purpose to demonstrate that for most of us in society who work full time and who don't have time or money to take shops to court we really are not protected.

Nope wouldn't trust Citizen's Advice  

OP if you aren't getting a resolve from the trader you need to look at sending a letter before action (templates on Google or some firms will send one for a small fee). 

I appreciate you don't want to go to small claims but I doubt the trader does either, the letter may encourage them to get on with their obligations.

Before sure to state you are exercising the short term right to reject, have made the goods available for collection and are seeking a full refund plus a pick up date for the unit.  

Alderbank

I hope your move went well and you are settling into your new home.

What have you done with the offending item?

Alderbank

bobbidyboo said:

- I have continued emailing the online retailer (a big name shop) & kept reminding them of consumer rights act 2015 section 20, giving them a link to it on gov.uk website and providing a direct quote in the email

Just a reminder for yourself that section 20 says

'the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader'

born_again

bobbidyboo said:

UPDATE: 
As promised, another update to this, and I will continue to update unless mods shut the thread down (which I assume they won't considering this is a forum intended to help people), and I hope my continued updates help others out there.

- I have continued emailing the online retailer (a big name shop) & kept reminding them of consumer rights act 2015 section 20, giving them a link to it on gov.uk website and providing a direct quote in the email
- they replied saying they don't think they have to abide by it because the faulty item was delivered directly by their supplier to me
- I repeated that my contract is with them, the retailer, not their supplier
- they didn't reply
- I asked my bank to step in on the debit card front
- My bank asked for a copy of the email correspondence
- I sent them the emails, the bank sounded incredulous once they had seen the emails from the shop. They said they see this time and time again- retailers flouting the law and consumers left out of pocket, meanwhile shops getting away with it and not being shut down. (This is good info to note for those of us who think we're protected until it happens to us)
- Staff at the bank were very sympathetic and said they'll do their best to get the transaction reversed as the shop is clearly breaking the law but they can't guarantee that even if the bank refunds the money, they won't have to reverse the refund in the future. They also warned me that the shop (online retailer) might cause extra problems for me further down the line, after the bank refunds my money. I wonder what they meant by that?

Will continue to update as the situation develops

So to give you a run down on chargeback, which this is.
So long as certain criteria is met, certain types of chargeback can be actioned. Faulty in this case.
The money is claimed back from the retailers bank & the retailer then has 45 days to contest this. 
If they contest, with a valid reason you will be redebited.
If they do not contest, you keep the refund.
BUT & this is a big one.
Chargebacks are over & above you legal rights. So a retailer can take you to court if they feel they are entitled to the money. (quite a few threads on this)
As above your consumer rights play no part in chargebacks as they are card regulations put in place by Visa, Mastercard & Amex. They are there to protect consumers & retailers.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

born_again said:

bobbidyboo said:

UPDATE: 
As promised, another update to this, and I will continue to update unless mods shut the thread down (which I assume they won't considering this is a forum intended to help people), and I hope my continued updates help others out there.

- I have continued emailing the online retailer (a big name shop) & kept reminding them of consumer rights act 2015 section 20, giving them a link to it on gov.uk website and providing a direct quote in the email
- they replied saying they don't think they have to abide by it because the faulty item was delivered directly by their supplier to me
- I repeated that my contract is with them, the retailer, not their supplier
- they didn't reply
- I asked my bank to step in on the debit card front
- My bank asked for a copy of the email correspondence
- I sent them the emails, the bank sounded incredulous once they had seen the emails from the shop. They said they see this time and time again- retailers flouting the law and consumers left out of pocket, meanwhile shops getting away with it and not being shut down. (This is good info to note for those of us who think we're protected until it happens to us)
- Staff at the bank were very sympathetic and said they'll do their best to get the transaction reversed as the shop is clearly breaking the law but they can't guarantee that even if the bank refunds the money, they won't have to reverse the refund in the future. They also warned me that the shop (online retailer) might cause extra problems for me further down the line, after the bank refunds my money. I wonder what they meant by that?

Will continue to update as the situation develops

So to give you a run down on chargeback, which this is.
So long as certain criteria is met, certain types of chargeback can be actioned. Faulty in this case.
The money is claimed back from the retailers bank & the retailer then has 45 days to contest this. 
If they contest, with a valid reason you will be redebited.
If they do not contest, you keep the refund.
BUT & this is a big one.
Chargebacks are over & above you legal rights. So a retailer can take you to court if they feel they are entitled to the money. (quite a few threads on this)
As above your consumer rights play no part in chargebacks as they are card regulations put in place by Visa, Mastercard & Amex. They are there to protect consumers & retailers.

@born_again Just as a general question, at what point should the consumer return goods? Before the chargeback or does the bank tell you to do this as part of the process?

born_again

@the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

The regs do state that item should be returned 1st. But does have a cover off that if retailer is refusing, such as failing to answer emails phone etc or set a date such as Op's case then it can be started.
So customer is expected to have tried. If they say they have not tried, then we send them away to try, as retailer could reject on a technicality of due process not being followed. 
That's the one chance gone. 

I can see retailer contesting on the basis that they have not directly supplied the item (delivered by manufacture) & they have instructed them to collect it, so it is not their fault.
So bank may have to go back on pre-arbitration on the basis it was purchased from the name on the debit.

tightauldgit

born_again said:

@the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

The regs do state that item should be returned 1st. But does have a cover off that if retailer is refusing, such as failing to answer emails phone etc or set a date such as Op's case then it can be started.
So customer is expected to have tried. If they say they have not tried, then we send them away to try, as retailer could reject on a technicality of due process not being followed. 
That's the one chance gone. 

I can see retailer contesting on the basis that they have not directly supplied the item (delivered by manufacture) & they have instructed them to collect it, so it is not their fault.
So bank may have to go back on pre-arbitration on the basis it was purchased from the name on the debit.

But even if the chargeback occurs presumably the retailer still has a right to ask for the item to be returned in future? Unless they explicitly say 'we don't want it back' then wouldn't they retain the right to ask for it? Which if the OP plans to abandon it would create a potential future issue.

born_again

tightauldgit said:

born_again said:

@the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

The regs do state that item should be returned 1st. But does have a cover off that if retailer is refusing, such as failing to answer emails phone etc or set a date such as Op's case then it can be started.
So customer is expected to have tried. If they say they have not tried, then we send them away to try, as retailer could reject on a technicality of due process not being followed. 
That's the one chance gone. 

I can see retailer contesting on the basis that they have not directly supplied the item (delivered by manufacture) & they have instructed them to collect it, so it is not their fault.
So bank may have to go back on pre-arbitration on the basis it was purchased from the name on the debit.

But even if the chargeback occurs presumably the retailer still has a right to ask for the item to be returned in future? Unless they explicitly say 'we don't want it back' then wouldn't they retain the right to ask for it? Which if the OP plans to abandon it would create a potential future issue.

Of course they want it back, as they have said that. As they have passed it onto supplier to arrange pick up.
As has already been said. If OP simply leaves it in a public space & it disappears. They will never get their refund.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

born_again said:

@the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

The regs do state that item should be returned 1st. But does have a cover off that if retailer is refusing, such as failing to answer emails phone etc or set a date such as Op's case then it can be started.
So customer is expected to have tried. If they say they have not tried, then we send them away to try, as retailer could reject on a technicality of due process not being followed. 
That's the one chance gone. 

I can see retailer contesting on the basis that they have not directly supplied the item (delivered by manufacture) & they have instructed them to collect it, so it is not their fault.
So bank may have to go back on pre-arbitration on the basis it was purchased from the name on the debit.

Thank you @born_again, usual info as always