dead on arrival - online company won't collect or refund appliance

bobbidyboo

Alderbank said:

bobbidyboo said:

Does the above sound ok? What do I do if they either don't reply or don't comply? Am I able to leave it in the lobby at their own liability? 

You have legal duties regarding the unit which you requested, even though you have now decided you don't want it. 

Perhaps not very helpfully, the law says your actions have to be 'right and reasonable'.

Would one of your neighbours be willing to look after it until it gets picked up?
If you don't have transport I assume a friend or family member is helping you move. Would they store it in their garage?

Presumably, since you bought it just before moving, your plan was to take it with you to the new place? Stick to that plan.

Those are the sort of actions which would be reasonable.

I don't understand why you say I just "don't want it". It is faulty. What are my legal duties? This isn't a change of heart. It was dead on arrival.

The online shop was non-responsive so I had to buy one elsewhere. This is not a choice. I need to work & live. I could not work / live / earn without a working unit.

My neighbours are transient & constantly moving out every few weeks, they are out at work all day every day, and they too have no space- it's therefore not practical to ask them to store it or to be in for collection. 

I have no friend or family helping me move. I have just enough transport & storage space for one air conditioning unit (the working replacement), not two. It's therefore not reasonable to assume I planned to have enough storage for two units.

I had no plan for the shop to send me a faulty unit & then refuse to collect it for weeks / months. I don't know anyone in this area with a garage. I'm in central London where space is at a premium. It's not reasonable to assume everyone has storage space for such a large appliance in this area.

These appliances are huge and weigh about 20-30kg each. I have literally only enough storage and transport for one unit.

The problem with "reasonable" is that everyone has a different opinion. For example, someone living in the countryside with space and garage who rarely or ever moved home would think storing it for weeks is reasonable, while someone who lives in central London in a bedsit with no garage or space, who is moving home, would think being expected to store an appliance for weeks is not reasonable. It really depends on the situation. In my situation, it's completely unreasonable...

But how do I enforce the law if they don't comply?

tightauldgit

bobbidyboo said:

Suggesting impossible actions is not reasonable.

Well provided you are happy arguing that you did your best in court if it came to it then do what you think is reasonable. 

The problem you are likely to face is that if you move out and just leave the unit in the hallway then the seller isn't going to be able to collect it and they won't refund you. The ball will then be in your court to try to enforce any consumer rights that you have. 

bobbidyboo

tightauldgit said:

bobbidyboo said:

Suggesting impossible actions is not reasonable.

Well provided you are happy arguing that you did your best in court if it came to it then do what you think is reasonable. 

The problem you are likely to face is that if you move out and just leave the unit in the hallway then the seller isn't going to be able to collect it and they won't refund you. The ball will then be in your court to try to enforce any consumer rights that you have. 

Well, I would have given them ample chance (2 weeks) to collect it before moving out & warned them of that, so surely that is on them. What do you suggest?

How do I enforce the law if they don't comply with section 20?

tightauldgit

bobbidyboo said:

tightauldgit said:

bobbidyboo said:

Suggesting impossible actions is not reasonable.

Well provided you are happy arguing that you did your best in court if it came to it then do what you think is reasonable. 

The problem you are likely to face is that if you move out and just leave the unit in the hallway then the seller isn't going to be able to collect it and they won't refund you. The ball will then be in your court to try to enforce any consumer rights that you have. 

Well, I would have given them ample chance (2 weeks) to collect it before moving out & warned them of that, so surely that is on them. What do you suggest?

How do I enforce the law if they don't comply with section 20?

Well unless you have some other route to claim via your bank or credit card or whatever then the route to enforce the law is court. The thing is that will take a lot longer than a few weeks so you'd have to make your own judgement on whether a judge would agree with you on whether you took sufficient care/effort to return the unit or to make alternative arrangements.  

bobbidyboo

Well, I would have given them ample chance (2 weeks) to collect it before moving out & warned them of that, so surely that is on them. What do you suggest?

How do I enforce the law if they don't comply with section 20?

Well unless you have some other route to claim via your bank or credit card or whatever then the route to enforce the law is court. The thing is that will take a lot longer than a few weeks so you'd have to make your own judgement on whether a judge would agree with you on whether you took sufficient care/effort to return the unit or to make alternative arrangements.  

I can't afford court in terms of time or money so in otherwords the consumer protection we have in the UK is useless for non-resource-rich people...

km1500

I may have missed it but how did you pay - did you pay by debit card or credit card for example?

bobbidyboo

km1500 said:

I may have missed it but how did you pay - did you pay by debit card or credit card for example?

debit card

tightauldgit

bobbidyboo said:

Well, I would have given them ample chance (2 weeks) to collect it before moving out & warned them of that, so surely that is on them. What do you suggest?

How do I enforce the law if they don't comply with section 20?

Well unless you have some other route to claim via your bank or credit card or whatever then the route to enforce the law is court. The thing is that will take a lot longer than a few weeks so you'd have to make your own judgement on whether a judge would agree with you on whether you took sufficient care/effort to return the unit or to make alternative arrangements.  

I can't afford court in terms of time or money so in otherwords the consumer protection we have in the UK is useless for non-resource-rich people...

I'm not quite sure from this comment what you are expecting then - consumer protection like any other laws can only really be enforced by the courts. There's no magic words to force someone to comply with what you want. If you aren't willing to go to court over it then your options are simply to keep asking the supplier to pick it up and refund you until such times as one of you gets tired and gives in.

I would imagine if you simply abandon the unit in the hallway when you move out then you will lose any chance of a future refund. 

km1500

if you paid by debit card then ask your bank to initiate a chargeback for the full amounts on the basis that are non-working unit was delivered to you

bobbidyboo

tightauldgit said:

bobbidyboo said:

I can't afford court in terms of time or money so in otherwords the consumer protection we have in the UK is useless for non-resource-rich people...

I'm not quite sure from this comment what you are expecting then - consumer protection like any other laws can only really be enforced by the courts. 

Expecting or hoping for consumer protection in UK to protect all in society, not just those who are money/time-rich enough to afford court. For example, you could have a government-run organisation whose job it is to enforce consumer law. Trading standards for example. If the online shop doesn't comply, customer simply forwards the email conversation to that organisation & they step in. With attitudes like "I'm not quite sure what you are expecting", it's no wonder this problem exists.

tightauldgit said:

There's no magic words to force someone to comply with what you want. If you aren't willing to go to court over it then your options are simply to keep asking the supplier to pick it up and refund you until such times as one of you gets tired and gives in.

It isn't about magic words to comply with what the consumer wants. It's about enforcing a law that already exists.

tightauldgit said:

If you aren't willing to go to court over it then your options are simply to keep asking the supplier to pick it up and refund you until such times as one of you gets tired and gives in.

While taking an online shop to court may be an option for some, not everyone can due to circumstances such as financial constraints, limited legal knowledge, or limited free time outside of work that may prevent individuals from pursuing legal action. Therefore, suggesting that the only alternative is to persistently ask the supplier for a refund overlooks the challenges faced by many. It's crucial to consider a range of options, including seeking consumer protection agencies or online dispute resolution platforms, to ensure fairness and justice for all customers, irrespective of their ability to go to court.